Noob Questions: FWC Fleet Bed Sizing, FWC Solar/Power setup and costs, hot water external shower?

[kifo4173]

Hello!

New to the forum, it's been extremely insightful in figuring out what I want in my FWC. I'm currently looking at a rig for full-time (1-2 year) use for a cross-country climbing and documentary film journey. I'll mostly be camping in unimproved/dispersed campsites and will almost never have a shore hookup. I'm heavily considering a Fleet with a front dinette, furnace, flush-mount sink/stove, 80L compressor fridge, fantastic fan, and possibly external hot water shower.

I have a few questions, listed below. While I found some sort of response in searches, specifics were difficult.

First, the sizing of the bed. Living in the rig full-time I'm not incredibly excited about setting up the bed each night and remaking my sheets/blankets/etc. What are the dimensions of the Fleet bed without it pulled out? How do people set up their bed setups quickly when they are in a location for a long time but want to have full access to their living space below? Additionally, I'm not particularly excited about sleeping on the cushions provided by FWC. Do people replace these with some sort of memory foam/mattress? I know it's roughly 4 inches thickness. How do you roll this back or store it when the bed is in its smaller position? Is it possible to leave the bed made in some regard this way to avoid re-making it each night?

Second, I'm overwhelmed by power and solar options. My power needs are as follows: constant charging capacity each night for two laptops, two cell phones, two camera batteries, 80L compression fridge, furnace, and then the hot water pump/regular pump, LED lights, fan. I will NEVER have shore power and am wondering what the most efficient/least expensive power system would be. Ideally would be able to run all of this for 3-4 days in a cloudy situation without solar, and infinitely when the rig gets 8 hours of solar each day. The fridge is the most important-I could stand to not charge devices for a few days if necessary, although draws for charging these devices are rather minimal. What kind of amp hour battery bank would be suitable for this? What ah is provided by the 'dual camper battery system' optioned by FWC? Is it a good value (total $620 for dual battery setup/wiring)?

In terms of solar, what size panel compliment the kind of battery bank I outlined above? Is the 160 watt from FWC ($995) a good value or should I look to something else? I found people who had found good success with $200 120 watt panels chained together. I don't mind doing the work myself.

On the topic of power, is the 80L compressor fridge a huge power drain? I read around 4.2-4.8 amp/hr for the 110 liter-is this around the same for the 80? I'm wondering about something like an ARB instead for long-term use at a much lower amp/hr draw-seen figures of 1.5 amp/hr.

Finally, how does the hot water system/outside shower work? Is it a tank system or on-demand tankless? Is this worth the price tag or would a stand-alone on-demand system be significantly cheaper and more efficient for use every couple of days?

Any any all help is appreciated-even if it's a link or telling me where or what to search. Cheers, look forward to joining the family.

 

[Ethergore]

First, the sizing of the bed. Living in the rig full-time I'm not incredibly excited about setting up the bed each night and remaking my sheets/blankets/etc. What are the dimensions of the Fleet bed without it pulled out? How do people set up their bed setups quickly when they are in a location for a long time but want to have full access to their living space below? Additionally, I'm not particularly excited about sleeping on the cushions provided by FWC. Do people replace these with some sort of memory foam/mattress? I know it's roughly 4 inches thickness. How do you roll this back or store it when the bed is in its smaller position? Is it possible to leave the bed made in some regard this way to avoid re-making it each night?

I dont know the exact dimensions of the fleet bed when not pulled out but can say it is about the size of a twin. You didn't specify if you will be camping alone but the bed not pulled out is only big enough for 1 person. I'm not sure if the new campers still have the option but I know a gentleman who has the extended cabover option and leaves his bed pulled out and made all the time. There are a few threads on what to do to increase the comfort of the bed. Most people change it to memory foam or add some kind of a topper. From what I understand the newer models have a more comfortable mattress but this is subjective.

Second, I'm overwhelmed by power and solar options. My power needs are as follows: constant charging capacity each night for two laptops, two cell phones, two camera batteries, 80L compression fridge, furnace, and then the hot water pump/regular pump, LED lights, fan. I will NEVER have shore power and am wondering what the most efficient/least expensive power system would be. Ideally would be able to run all of this for 3-4 days in a cloudy situation without solar, and infinitely when the rig gets 8 hours of solar each day. The fridge is the most important-I could stand to not charge devices for a few days if necessary, although draws for charging these devices are rather minimal. What kind of amp hour battery bank would be suitable for this? What ah is provided by the 'dual camper battery system' optioned by FWC? Is it a good value (total $620 for dual battery setup/wiring)?

-Use the spreadsheet here to figure out your power usage: http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/828-amps-per-day-spreadsheet/?p=8545 . Once you do that you can have a good idea of how much battery you need. Dont forget that you should not drain your battery past 50%. Also know that the meter that comes with the camper is very bad at gauging how much power you have used. At least you need to get used to checking with a multimeter, install a volt meter or, preferably, get a trimetric that will tell you your exact usage. I have a front opening 80 L fridge and it draws a lot of amps. It says 3.5 while running and I seem to run more than 50% of the time. I seem to use about 30 ah per day if its over 80 in the day. The top opening fridges are MUCH more efficient. Some have reported as little as 12 ah used in a day but I'd plan for more just in case. I recommend you get at least 190 ah of battery so you have a usable 95 ah. If you don't mind spending money there is a member here running a lithium battery that saves weight and you can discharge to 80%! I have 2 6 volt golf cart batteries that I got for just under 500 new with 5 yr warranty that gives me 190 ah.

In terms of solar, what size panel compliment the kind of battery bank I outlined above? Is the 160 watt from FWC ($995) a good value or should I look to something else? I found people who had found good success with $200 120 watt panels chained together. I don't mind doing the work myself.

-Many people say they have more than enough solar with only 100 w. I am one of those because I leave my panel portable and keep pointing it at the sun all day. When directed at the sun the panel will give over 5 amps without cloud. With cloud I still get about 2. Now, to make life simple its a lot easier, but more expensive, to over do it. 300 watts mounted on the roof will likely get you enough throughout the day. If you have 8 hours of light and 3-4 are optimal thats already like 45-60 ah. If it stays cloudy all day you should still have a good amount coming in. It all just depends if you want to spend the money.

​Whether on not the FWC is a good deal is up to how much value you place on having it installed and warrantied. Solid 100 w panels are about $100, flexible are about $220 right now. Charge controller ranges from $30 to $150 depending on which one you want. So basically after wiring and all you should be able to get a 300w setup for under $400. The down side is your roof would be very heavy. The better option would be to go flexible and get a good charge controller and power use monitor and you would be at about $1000 for a bad a** setup without considering the cost of batteries.

On the topic of power, is the 80L compressor fridge a huge power drain? I read around 4.2-4.8 amp/hr for the 110 liter-is this around the same for the 80? I'm wondering about something like an ARB instead for long-term use at a much lower amp/hr draw-seen figures of 1.5 amp/hr.

-Sorry. Answered that already

Finally, how does the hot water system/outside shower work? Is it a tank system or on-demand tankless? Is this worth the price tag or would a stand-alone on-demand system be significantly cheaper and more efficient for use every couple of days?

-Dont have this but I kind of wish I did.

 

[kifo4173]

Thanks Ethergore! For solar I'm likely going to go with two lightweight renology panels and a charge controller. I'm still curious about options, hoping other members can chime in, particularly on this:

Battery setups optioned by FWC. Storage capacity and cost? What is included in the "camper battery system?" What is the amp hour amount produced by the combined 2-battery FWC option? Ethergore mentioned 190 ah-what kinds of systems are people using to get this, and how do they compare to the FWC system?

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Hi Kifo,

Adding a little bit to Ethergores.

Sleeping
You sleep crosswise. Fleet is 76" wide outside - 74" inside. FWC uses a 3" thick medium hard foam mattress. That will allow you to leave the bed made - Just removing your pillows.

Personal opinion.

I would NOT buy a FWC to live in for 1-2 years because it is too SMALL. No storage, no cabinet space, no defined bathroom. NO creature comforts.

For your application - You need to consider a full-size 1 ton truck and hard-sided regular camper like a Lance or a Caribou. For excursions in the back country tow a Jeep 4WD. Get your pictures, maybe camp in a tent overnight, then high tail it back to where you are camped.

If your set on FWC and like deprivation at least buy a Grandby (80" wide x 144 " long).

While you are researching go to the RV shows and go into the campers to get a feel for the living space and amemities of each.
Check out "Truck Camper Magazine Buyers Guide"

Good luck on finding the best camper.

 

[kifo4173]

RC Jim,

Thanks for your reply! I'm actually pretty confident that the FWC will be fine. I'll be out climbing/shooting most all the time, inside only to sleep and cook. Was going to do a sprinter van conversion but realized with a queen size bed in a 144 inch wheel base the kitchen/living space is the same as a FWC that fits onto the truck I already own! Wasn't planning on having a bathroom anyways-will be able to find places to go wherever I am!

For storage I'm going to remove the rear seats of my 4 door tacoma and install drawers.

Anyone have insight on the FWC battery question? Cheers! Such a good forum, very excited about everyone's responsiveness.

 

[Ethergore]

Thanks Ethergore! For solar I'm likely going to go with two lightweight renology panels and a charge controller. I'm still curious about options, hoping other members can chime in, particularly on this:

Battery setups optioned by FWC. Storage capacity and cost? What is included in the "camper battery system?" What is the amp hour amount produced by the combined 2-battery FWC option? Ethergore mentioned 190 ah-what kinds of systems are people using to get this, and how do they compare to the FWC system?

The two batteries they offer are 75 ah. That means you will have a total of 150 ah with 75 usable ah. Not sure what they cost. The camper battery system consists of the wiring, a battery separator and battery if I recall correctly. Two 6v golf cart batteries will get 190 ah or you can do two group 31 batteries for about the same cost. I went 6 v cause people seem to have had more longevity with them and they were cheaper.

Oh ya. It's Renogy and not Renology.

 

[longhorn1]

We have a 2014 Grandby and keep the bed pulled out most of the time. My wife and I sleep N/S and my feet hang over. We never have had an issue with the foam bed. We keep our sleeping bags out, use them in the fall and a sheet in the spring/summer. We have marine hyper-vent under the bed to prevent condensation. Even if we slide the bed slide in for the day, it doesn't take more than 10 seconds to get the bed pulled out or closed up.

We have 2 AGM batteries, 100W Zamp solar on the roof and purchase a 80W portable, which we used once so far. We have the front dinette with 80L fridge. We have never come close to the batteries getting low. I use a CPAP machine. We are careful about the use of the lights, having several battery lanterns.

You could probably sleep East/West and leave the extra cushions at home. Not sure my wife and I could live for 1-2 years in something so small. Even something like a Northern Lite hardside (all fiberglass), might be a better option.

Good luck in your search. John

 

[Cayuse]

Running 200W solar and a 65L fridge with 2 Group 31 batteries and have no problems. I'm usually fully charged by early afternoon. I do pay a little bit of attention to where I park while I'm at the crag so I stay in the sun as much as possible but can usually get 2-3 days in cloudy or shaded conditions without much effort.

I don't plug in to shore power and very rarely do I flip the switch to let the camper charge from the truck while I'm driving.

Where do you plan on camping and climbing? Some areas will be better for charging than others.

 

[Squatch]

The fleet offers a "hidden option of a full king bed" that's not on the sheet. Go for it. I've been reading a lot on solar lately but I'm far from an expert. But for me in your place I'd go for 2 group 27 AGM batteries or the equal in 6 volt batteriers. . They'll be heavy but that's roughly 200 ah's. Then I'd do 200 watts on the roof and set up for an additional 100 watts portable if you are camped in the trees ect. This is what I'm thinking of for myself. Better too much than too little. My furnace can draw down a group 31 Optima pretty good if on all night.

There is a big difference between a couple of weeks out camping and living in the truck full time. For full timing it you want options for when things go wrong as they surely will. The more options you have the more potential draw there is. Plan for worst case scenario's.

I have an Eagle. I'm a big boy at 6' 240#. I can sleep on the unextended bed diagonal by myself. But not 2 folks with any comfort. Cross wise is tight. The Fleet adds about 6" over the Eagle. My 4'11" wife can sleep in comfort cross wise. It's all relative.

 

[Advmoto18]

I think Ethergore summed it up pretty well!

I think traveling solo and living full-time in any FWC is very do-able if properly thought out and optioned at the time of ordering. I could live full time in my Hawk. But, my wife would likely need a periodic break from the camper life style.

Sizing: Be it a Fleet, Hawk or Grandby, is purely a personal choice based on YOUR perception of minimum comfort needs and budget. Don't overlook that a F-350/3500 class is most suitable for a Grandby's weight (yes, you can stick it on a 250/2500, but you will be very quickly payload (GVWR) limited). Also, you can almost buy two Tacoma TRDs to carry a Fleet for the price of one F-350 Lariat FX4 diesel!

As a Marine many decades ago and an airline pilot living out of a small suitcase for days on end I learned to pack light. It is merely a matter of learning what you need to get by and what is a luxury item. I have traveled for months with the clothes on my back and 2 changes of clothes in a day pack and rarely had a need for anything that I didn't carry or couldn't source locally. A minimalist life style is easily another person's living high on the hog, or nightmare. It is all a matter of perception and what works for YOU.

If you need a toilet in your camper, the Hawk and Grandby has the cassette toilet option. Both also offer interior showers. But, I prefer an outside shower and toilet. Clean-Waste makes an excllent privacy tent for showering (if other folks are nearby) and hiding the toilet. When dispersed/remote camping, we use the Clean Waste WAG toilet-waste system. No need to find a dump station.

Kifo, I don't know where you live, but, I would strongly encourage you to take a close look at the FWC models at the factory, a dealer or a rally/expo. IMO, side-by-side model comparison is the only way you can obtain a true measure of what model will likely be right for YOU and YOUR needs.

There are a lot of options to consider that will enhance your experience. Talk to other owners, you will quickly receive a wide array of opinions of what works for them and what could have been left off. Each FWC owner's camping life-style is unique, you merely need to discover yours.

Good luck with the search!

 

[BFH4N]

Hi kifo4173,

The bed in the Fleet is several inches smaller each way than a king. Between queen-size and kind-size. Without the pull-out part, it's about the size of a single bed - a little wider. If you are sleeping alone and not tall, you could use it that way and leave it made up. But, even with the pull-out it's not that difficult to make the bed each day. The hard part is tucking the sheets under at the front - you have to climb up on the bed - and you can leave that part made up. Just untuck the bedding at the bottom and flip it up on top, then remove the four cushions that comprise the lower part of the bed and slide in the pull-out. At night, put the cushions back and tuck everything in. You do it kneeling on the benches. You can lay the pillows out on top of the bed before you put the top down, if they're not too thick.

The stock FWC mattress is good for me. Don't assume you need something better until you have tried it for a while.

To me, there's plenty of room an a Fleet for one person and enough for two. But, we've never lived in there for more than a few days at a time. Maybe it would start to feel too crowded for two after a while. Depends on the people, I guess. (I generally want to be outside as much as possible.) The best thing would be to find a way to look at one - lie on the bed and sit at the table for a while. They probably don't have all the models at the various dealers, but you can see them all at the factory in California (That's what I did). I don't know where you live, but maybe you can find someone in your area who has one and would let you go and see it. For example, if you are in the Mid-Atlanic area, you can come an see mine.

The data on the success of various solar installations is indeed overwhelming! People with similar setups report both sucess and failure. While I am in the process of installing solar power equipment (2 x 75 AH batteries, 2 x 100 W collectors, CTEK controller and TriMetric monitor), I don't have total confidence that it will meet my needs (65 liter frige and nightly CPAP machine use). Good luck!

- Bernard

 

[brianjwilson]

I just bought the camper you're looking at. Fleet forward dinette, 80l compressor fridge, flush mount sink and stove, water heater, inside and outside shower.
So far we love the camper.

The bed width is around 73" if I remember right (I'm across the country right now). Length is 76-78" fully deployed. Without the pull out extended it is about 48x73". I have an artic pack (I highly recommend for heat or cold, as well as darkness/privacy), and wouldn't try to leave bedding up top. Instead we bought an "Rv superbag". Basically a king size two person sleeping bag with velcro in sheets. No making a bed, just throw it up there and be done. It is a little overpriced but super convenient and nice to have a normal style bedding vs a sleeping bag. Before I close the camper, I zip it up, fold it 3 times from the bottom and put it on one of the dinette seats, pillows on top. The extra bed cushions sit on top of the dinette table and have a single bunjee cord holding them there. Very quick, easy and comfortable.

I haven't used the inside shower yet, but have used the outside shower and water heater for my daughter. She is 14 months and loves playing in sand and dirt. It is very nice to be able to clean up outside.

As for storage in the camper, there is a lot more than I expected. I could easily full time in this camper by myself. Storage under both dinette seats, under the sink, under the fridge, right side of the fridge, above there, etc. Some room behind dinette cushions. I also have the battery compartment for storage as my agm batteries are behind the rear seat of my Tacoma.

I have 300 watts of solar, an mppt controller, and 3 group 34 agms (one is a starter battery). The starter battery is isolated with a blue sea automatic charge relay, all batteries and camper hooked up using 2 gauge wire. I have seen over 15 amps from the solar and I'm sure I can get a great bulk charge from the alternator with 2 gauge wire. So far if I leave the fridge and roof fan running all night, with a phone charging, batteries are at 12.6v when I wake up. But it is summer. Solar and battery sizing takes a lot of calculating, or trial and error. Lots of ways to do it.

 

[Stalking Light]

I have an Eagle, not a Fleet, but for bedding I use a North Face double bag and Big Agnes memory foam/inflatable pillows. I just deflate the pillows, fold the bag over, and leave it all on the bed. Plenty of room to let the top down. I also put two of the extra cushions on the countertop held with a bungee and use the small area between the cushions and the wall to store misc items that might otherwise bounce around the cabin. I put the other two cushions on the passenger side by the window held in place with the side dinette table.

I think the Feet forward dinette has more storage options than my Eagle so I can't speak to that. I did add an Aluminess rear bumper with deluxe box for more outside storage, though. I do carry a generator in there, too, although I don't use it much since my 100w solar keeps up when it's sunny and I'm driving every day. For long rainy periods, especially when I'm using my laptop a lot to process photos, I do use the generator to top off the batteries.

 

[longhorn1]

Brian, great post. Was your solar installed by FWC?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Wander The West mobile app

 

[brianjwilson]

Brian, great post. Was your solar installed by FWC?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Wander The West mobile app

I installed the solar. 2x 100w and 2x 50 watt renology panels. I arranged them this way to leave the rear drivers side clear for a cargo box or similar, and the cross bars won't shade the panels. You could easily do 400 watts. I'm using a blue sky 3000i controller. So far I'm impressed, with a light overcast at 30 minutes after sunrise I can see a couple amps charging. 6-8 amps on a full overcast day or with partial shading on the panels. Around 2amps with the house blocking all direct sun but with a clear sky late in the afternoon. Up to 15 amps in full sun with a good angle.




Camper batteries behind the passenger rear seat, during an absorption charge on solar. I think my cheapo meter reads .1v high or so. The starter battery is also being charged and read the same voltage +/- .02v



I forgot to comment on the foam mattress as well. I'm 30 but have chronic neck and back pain due to different injuries. I've spent 5 or 6 nights in the campers and slept very well, surprisingly. So try it before you assume you'll need a different mattress pad.