Questions regarding "So, you want to setup a good electrical system in your camper?"

[Wallowa]

Utah,

Watch BattleBorn video [somewhere in this thread] interview with owner regards voltage variances in their batteries...100% is fine and in storage voltage [vic 712] will settle into about 13.3v then hold for a long time...do not leave charger for extended periods; constant charging without draw down lessens life of battery...my 100ah BB has built in heater that keeps battery in best temp range so you can charge it...dropping to below freezing and BMS will not allow charging, hence the heater....it also shuts off at around 45F as I recall...battery OK will low temps but high temps again lessens battery life...

Phil

 

[Vic Harder]

Regarding LiFePO4 battery maintenance and life, should I be thinking about my new battery differently? Converting now to LiFePO4. I have trained myself to charge my old AGM batteries at every opportunity when traveling (no solar, charging from truck). I also have topped them off with an external charger after each trip and then every month or so when my camper is just sitting in the garage. Do I understand correctly that LiFePO4 batteries do not like to be left sitting at 100% SOC? Should I aim to have the battery at a lower SOC when I arrive home from a trip and the camper will be parked in my garage for a while? If so, what would be the maximum SOC? (Note - I use a Victron BMV-712 battery monitor in the camper).

Appreciate any member comments...

Vic - this thread (and others) have been a great resource. Thanks for organizing.
Jon - thanks for your reply.

As Phil/Wallowa says above the batteries are not super fussy. They will live longer if stored between 40-80%, but I'm 65 and even if I "Abuse" my BB batteries they will easily outlive me.

 

[rubberlegs]

I still may make a ventilated compartment door, but primarily to keep the compartment warmer in winter camping.

I wonder why the battery compartment is closed up. Maybe it's for safety from AGM battery in case it leaks. Our camper has a plastic container, with no top, that the battery goes in. The compartment is completely closed, in fact the top is screwed shut.

Is a lithium battery is less likely to leak? Should we get rid of the plastic container, and put an vent on that compartment, which vents to the interior of the camper? That would warm the battery on cold days when we're in it, and allow it to cool on hot days when charging.

I'm thinking of mounting the DC-DC/MPPT controller outside of that compartment, thus completely open to the camper interior.

 

[ckent323]

rubberlegs, et. al.,

From a health and safety perspective all Lithium, FLA , AGM and GEL batteries should be in a ventilated compartment when used in the passenger compartment or living area of any dwelling or vehicle, including RVs, Campers and boats.

All of these batteries have the potential to vent dangerous gasses if they are charged too quickly or overheated. Indeed, they are designed with pressure relief devices or tiny vent holes to allow venting of gasses if they build up inside the battery.

I suspect careful reading of battery manufacturers installation and use instructions will confirm the need for venting.


I hope this information is helpful.

Craig

 

[Vic Harder]

Craig, I see on Renogy's site as well as others that they specifically state that "To ensure the utmost safety and minimal impact, our chemistry utilizes only environmentally acceptable materials and has zero emissions with no venting needed."

rubberlegs, my dual BB LiFePo4 batteries are NOT in a vented location. YMMV.

 

[rubberlegs]

From a health and safety perspective all Lithium, FLA , AGM and GEL batteries should be in a ventilated compartment when used in the passenger compartment or living area of any dwelling or vehicle, including RVs, Campers and boats.

Thanks. I assume you mean ventilated outside, like propane. I don't think our camper battery compartment is ventilated outside. Will check that tomorrow.

 

[Jon R]

Thanks. I assume you mean ventilated outside, like propane. I don't think our camper battery compartment is ventilated outside. Will check that tomorrow.

The FWC battery compartments I’ve seen have had two round louvered external vents about two inches in diameter. The interior compartment door of mine has a foam sealing strip around the perimeter that is not on the other cupboard doors. I assume those features are there because of the potential for lead acid batteries to vent hydrogen.

 

[Wallowa]

Thanks. I assume you mean ventilated outside, like propane. I don't think our camper battery compartment is ventilated outside. Will check that tomorrow.

My 2016 Hawk side dinette has a screened vent on shelf on passenger side under the top cover [with neoprene seal] over the battery box which is at front /passenger corner....also I do not believe LiFePo4 BB battery can vent gas if case is intact; in other words no battery case venting needed...but hey, I could be wrong!

 

[Vic Harder]

corrected my post above to say my BB batteries are NOT vented.

 

[rubberlegs]

Jiggers. Our battery compartment is vented too, and the area sealed as described by others above. Never noticed that before. But the vents don't look sufficient to cool very much in hot weather, it seem more for venting gas. On the other hand, in very cold weather it may be enough to cool a lithium battery that's not being used all night below freezing. The top of that compartment is somewhat sealed too.

Maybe it's wise to get a battery with the heating feature. Or plug the venting in that compartment, and maybe vent to the inside so the battery stays a little warmer at night.

 

[Wallowa]

Jiggers. Our battery compartment is vented too, and the area sealed as described by others above. Never noticed that before. But the vents don't look sufficient to cool very much in hot weather, it seem more for venting gas. On the other hand, in very cold weather it may be enough to cool a lithium battery that's not being used all night below freezing. The top of that compartment is somewhat sealed too.

Maybe it's wise to get a battery with the heating feature. Or plug the venting in that compartment, and maybe vent to the inside so the battery stays a little warmer at night.


Double issue....'too cold' my BB BMS will not allow battery to charge; but then again I can drop the SOC to about 20% before BMS shuts it off [charging and use are different issues]....so I have 80aH available between charges...'too hot' and life of battery decreases....soooooo, you can use the internally heated BB; on at 25-45 degrees [which we have], to charge the battery even if battery compartment is well below freezing [not nice in Hawk at those temps; but furnace keeps it cozy if I am in camper] such as when I am out skiing and ambient is down to 15 degrees or less, heated battery keeps the solar panels charging battery; I do not leave furnace/propane on when I am out of Hawk.

'Too hot'? well not a lot you can do about that; install a fan, but it is not the battery generating the heat but outside air, so fan will just circulate hot air assuming Hawk and outside temps are the same. A few campers have air conditioners; but honestly you need 110v hookup for those.

Without a heater in battery [BB] you could leave tie down doors open and run furnace to heat area of truck bed around battery box....not very efficient...or cut vents in battery box inside the camper to let in furnace heated air...still not the best solution.

 

[Vic Harder]

FYI, this is where my batteries are...
battery shelf - Vic's Puma (Grandby) build - Gallery - Wander the West

 

[Jack]

For FWCs sold in Oregon, the battery compartment must be sealed and vented, regardless of battery type. I had to remove much of the silicone sealant to fit two Full River AGMs into our 2015 Fleet FD. Our current battery is a 280aH LifePO4 - so much better.

 

[Wallowa]

For FWCs sold in Oregon, the battery compartment must be sealed and vented, regardless of battery type. I had to remove much of the silicone sealant to fit two Full River AGMs into our 2015 Fleet FD. Our current battery is a 280aH LifePO4 - so much better.

Only in Oregon?

Wow...where is the statute specifying that the battery box must be sealed? Must be a new mandate since our 2016 Hawk [bought new here in Oregon] did not have a sealed battery box; screwed on lid with gasket was definitely not gas tight. Where was silicon sealant you removed?

Don't doubt it happening here in the Peoples Republic of Oregon and assume then that California would have had such directive first.

 

[ckent323]

Vic et al.

I checked the BattleBorn and Renogy mfg instructions and concur that both claim no venting is required for their batteries.

By comparison I checked the Rolls-Surette, Lifeline -Concord, Interstate, NAPA and Renogy instructions for their AGM batteries and all call for venting.

Conclusions, it seems some (maybe all) LiFePO4 batteries do not require being placed in a vented compartment when used in the passenger compartment or living area. I do note that a number of RV and Battery info sites recommend having vented compartments for all batteries used in passenger compartments and living areas due to health and safety concerns in the event the batteries become overheated/overcharged or fail for any reason.

Caveat emptor

I hope this information is helpful.


Craig

 

[PaulT]

As far as a state requirement for a sealed battery compartment goes, any replacement battery might not be sealed so the state mandating sealing the compartment from the interior & venting to the outside makes sense from their viewpoint. The next owner is then free to use a different battery technology. If they are serious, they could require inspection of the vent & seal on transfer of ownership.

Like Phil, my 2014 Hawk is neither vented or sealed.

Paul

 

[rubberlegs]

This site says no venting: https://www.campervan-hq.com/pages/deep-cycle-rv-battery-buying-guide#:~:text=Q%3A%20Where%20should%20the%20RV,a%20sealed%20or%20vented%20box). says

Q: Where should the RV battery bank be located?
A: We recommend you locate your RV house battery bank in a sealed battery box in the interior of your camper van, preferably vented to the outside (lithium batteries do not require a sealed or vented box). If you keep your batteries around average room temperature, not cold or hot, they will serve you for a long time. Having an interior battery bank will also minimize the lengths of your wiring runs, which will keep voltage drop low and save you money on materials.

But this site https://www.ultraheat.com/post/why-battery-ventilation-is-important-for-your-rv says the opposite:

While lithium batteries don’t produce gas the same way the other two batteries do, they still require ventilation to prevent thermal runaway. If the battery gets too hot, it can reach a critical condition and explode.

This site may have more knowledge and authority of the previous two, and it says no venting needed: https://www.rvia.org/news-insights/rv-industry-making-changes-address-growing-popularity-lithium-batteries

With the existing and continued growth in popularity of non-vented batteries, it seemed no longer necessary to place non-vented, lithium batteries in vented compartments or boxes.
As such, last month, the RV Industry Association Board of Directors approved a recommendation from the Standards Steering Committee permitting non-vented (lithium) batteries to be located inside the living space of the RV, without venting.

I used to work on the 787 airplane, so don't trust me! ha ha. (I didn't work electrical stuff.)

 

[PaulT]

I used to work on the 787 airplane, so don't trust me! ha ha. (I didn't work electrical stuff.)

I had a neighbor that flew those and was flying one of the first ones grounded. It was while mid flight to Tokyo. I remember that he asked if it was ok to continue to and land in Tokyo rather than attempting to land his plane mid ocean. He was stuck in Japan for months.

As I recall, the fix initially was to vent the battery box in thermal runaway to the air. Seemed like a hard way to solve an engineering problem.

Paul

 

[Gumbus]

Thank you Vic for this very informative thread. With respect to running 4awg from the truck batt to the Victron Orion Tr Smart 30A and 100AH LiFe battery:

1. How do you make the connection at the truck bed? The Anerdson SB connectors seem fine but not a very clean pass through at the truck bed. I thought this might work -
https://www.westmarine.com/marinco-70a-trolling-motor-plug-and-receptacle-17950122.html

As this only accepts 6awg I would use this to step down 4awg to 6awg.
https://www.elecdirect.com/lug-compression-connectors/reducing-crimp-splices/copper-reducing-crimp-splice-4-awg-gray-to-6-awg-blue

2. So many differing opinions where to put the CB near the camper battery (LiFe). Do you recommend the CB (80A) between the Batt and the DC/DC charger?

What are your thoughts as the effectiveness and any another ideas you might have.
Thank you.

 

[TacomaAustin]

Thank you Vic for this very informative thread. With respect to running 4awg from the truck batt to the Victron Orion Tr Smart 30A and 100AH LiFe battery:

1. How do you make the connection at the truck bed? The Anerdson SB connectors seem fine but not a very clean pass through at the truck bed. I
Thank you.

There are mounts for an Anderson SB120, such as the one below:

https://www.amazon.com/Trailer-Vision-Anderson-Mounting-Connector/dp/B09FKC2KBL/ref=asc_df_B09FKC2KBL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=598351409759&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9356945545529454844&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028320&hvtargid=pla-1660155551245&psc=1

The description calls it a "Trailer Vision 120A Battery Quick Connector Protective Cover Mount Fits SB 120 Gauge 6-2 AWG 120 Amp Anderson Plug Assembly"

For the SB120 connector specified for #4 gauge wiring:

https://www.amazon.com/Install-Bay-SB120-Anderson-Connectors/dp/B0025ZVQAQ/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3I4PTVNSEIZOG&keywords=sb120%2Banderson&qid=1670348318&s=automotive&sprefix=Anderson%2BSB%2Cautomotive%2C120&sr=1-2&th=1