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Reducing weight
- Thread starter Boonie
- Start date
Boonie, great idea using the gray water to flush the potti! I understand what you are saying about the weight distribution, etc., but the Grandby was made for an 8' truck bed. Actually, my Ranger II is engineered quite well with a very good COG and weight distribution. True, the appliances are all on the driver side, but my vehicle fuel tank, house battery and all my gear is stored on the passenger side to balance things out. All and all a very good design. I believe the Ranger II was made specifically for the early Toyota pick ups though.
cwd
cwd
Ace!
Gone Traveling
Yep, appliances on one side, double AGM batteries on the other. Not significantly out of balance.
Boonie
Senior Member
Ace, With the solar panels I probably will have two batteries, but still the Appliances 191.5 lbs. Batteries 120 lbs. A 71.5 lbs. imbalance side to side but still the appliance weight is behind the axle. Move the refrigerator to the battery side and it is now Appliance side 157 lbs. and battery side 154.5 lbs. Relocate the propane and water tanks to the refrigerator location and I have a much better balanced rig. Remember I have to rebuild the interior anyway.
I will also have to take into consideration the appliance side is also the driver side which in my case means a 100 lbs. imbalance between myself and my wife.
I will also have to take into consideration the appliance side is also the driver side which in my case means a 100 lbs. imbalance between myself and my wife.
I guess I don't understand what you are including in your weights. For us 2 people (300lb) + 22 gal gas (130lb) + 15 gal water (120 lb) + food and beverages (30lb) + backpacks and climbing gear (50lb) + misc (50lb) and we are pretty close to your payload without even including the camper. Your camper must be made of titanium and purged with helium.
cwdtmmrs said:Rando, 1700 lbs? My point exactly in my earlier post. you are 800 lbs more than my rig is loaded.
cwd
Ace!
Gone Traveling
I wouldn't leave home without a pull/tow strap and appropriately sized D-rings or other attachments.
Rando, If you read my post you will see that my weight included EVERYTHING but me (185 lbs). I weighed my truck wet (18gal gas)without the camper. I went home and installed the camper loaded for a 2 week elk with full water tank(12gal), full 5gal propane tank and went back to the same scales and my camper was 980 pounds loaded. Total weight was 4700lbs. That is why I think the older models were much lighter than the new offerings.
cwd
Ace! I carry a pull strap and folding shovel as well
PS. 1 house battery, no solar
CORRECTION My house battery is mounted in the truck bed and did not get weighed as part of the camper. I am looking at my weight slip now and the truck full of gas and the house battery weight exactly 3700lbs. Truck with loaded wet camper 2 hours later was 4680lbs. That is 980lbs for loaded camper alone. Add my weight and I am still 100lbs under my payload of 1300lbs.
Hope that explains my weights and comments.
cwd
Ace! I carry a pull strap and folding shovel as well
PS. 1 house battery, no solar
CORRECTION My house battery is mounted in the truck bed and did not get weighed as part of the camper. I am looking at my weight slip now and the truck full of gas and the house battery weight exactly 3700lbs. Truck with loaded wet camper 2 hours later was 4680lbs. That is 980lbs for loaded camper alone. Add my weight and I am still 100lbs under my payload of 1300lbs.
Hope that explains my weights and comments.
Thanks for the clarification - otherwise I was thinking that you camper came out to something like 400lb, which seemed awfully light for a fully loaded camper. Given the math above, the difference between our wet camper weight is only 200 - 300lbs which seems reasonable.
I guess it depends on what your goals are - in my case I am often off by myself and so I need a lot of self recovery equipment. I have a Winch, PullPal, two jacks, sand rails, two Straps, D-rings, Air compressor, Tire repair kit, Impact wrench, Socket set, box ends and of course vice grips. This adds a lot of weight, so I use 3/4 ton with a diesel, which means all the recovery equipment needs to be bigger - it's a negative feedback loop. With a 1/2 ton truck that recovery gear can be lighter and if you always travel in a group you don't need to carry everything in each rig. Just going to a gas engine in the GM HD Trucks saves you 600 lbs.
My Hawk can carry 26 gallons of water (20 in the tank and 6 in Water heater) (210 lbs), but I don't think I have every used more than 5 (42 lbs) on any trip. For drinking and cooking I always carry bottled water - the camper tank is just for showers and washing hands and dishes. I WISH FWC had a smaller water tank option - I could use the extra storage space (or a grey water tank). Eventually I might change over to a tankless water heater - which would save me 6 gallons of water (~50lbs) and weight that is very high up on the rig.
I also have the Cassette Toilet option - which ads weight (and has it's own small water tank). I could have gone with a portable, but as a bigger guy I like a more normal sized commode.
I also which I had gone with a smaller fridge (I have 80L) - this would have given me more storage space and less weight. There is a lot of wasted space (and energy) with too large a fridge.
My Hawk can carry 26 gallons of water (20 in the tank and 6 in Water heater) (210 lbs), but I don't think I have every used more than 5 (42 lbs) on any trip. For drinking and cooking I always carry bottled water - the camper tank is just for showers and washing hands and dishes. I WISH FWC had a smaller water tank option - I could use the extra storage space (or a grey water tank). Eventually I might change over to a tankless water heater - which would save me 6 gallons of water (~50lbs) and weight that is very high up on the rig.
I also have the Cassette Toilet option - which ads weight (and has it's own small water tank). I could have gone with a portable, but as a bigger guy I like a more normal sized commode.
I also which I had gone with a smaller fridge (I have 80L) - this would have given me more storage space and less weight. There is a lot of wasted space (and energy) with too large a fridge.
carld
Senior Member
OutbacKamper
Senior Member
I think there are 2 basic approaches to a well thought out weight management plan for FWC owners.
The first is: I have (or want) vehicle X and camper Y...this leaves Z lbs of payload capacity. Now I need to adjust what I carry to suit the vehicle GVW. The original poster seems to fit into this category.
The second is: I have (or want) camper Y, and need to carry Z lbs of payload, therfore I will need vehicle X in order to have a GVW rating that allows sufficient payload capacity for what I need to carry. This is what I did thanks to advice from FWC.
Both approaches are valid. In my case I had originally planned on buying a Toyota Tundra, but when I contacted FWC to order the camper, the salesman asked me a lot of questions about what I was planning to do with the camper and highly recommended a 1 ton truck. Once I started to add up the weight of the gear that was essential to me for the type of travel I was planning I realized that he was correct. I have never regretted going with the 1 ton truck and am thankful to that salesman for the advice. As an added bonus the 1 ton F350 was cheaper than the Tundra and got better mileage.
To answer some of the questions posed by Boonie:
What do you carry that you never use?
Hi-Lift Jack, Lift Mate, Bow Saw, Winch, Winch Accessories...however just because I have never used them yet does not necessarily mean I don't want to carry them (although I am seriously considering eliminating the HI-Lift & Lift Mate)
What add-ons are ineffective, but just add weight?
Can't think of any
What have you done to reduce the weight you are carrying into the boonies?
I try to match the amount of food, drink, water, and fuel I carry to the expected conditions, with a small reserve. Other than that, nothing really.
What are you carrying that you absolutely would not leave behind even if it meant leaving something else at home?
Tools, recovery gear, ample water.
The first is: I have (or want) vehicle X and camper Y...this leaves Z lbs of payload capacity. Now I need to adjust what I carry to suit the vehicle GVW. The original poster seems to fit into this category.
The second is: I have (or want) camper Y, and need to carry Z lbs of payload, therfore I will need vehicle X in order to have a GVW rating that allows sufficient payload capacity for what I need to carry. This is what I did thanks to advice from FWC.
Both approaches are valid. In my case I had originally planned on buying a Toyota Tundra, but when I contacted FWC to order the camper, the salesman asked me a lot of questions about what I was planning to do with the camper and highly recommended a 1 ton truck. Once I started to add up the weight of the gear that was essential to me for the type of travel I was planning I realized that he was correct. I have never regretted going with the 1 ton truck and am thankful to that salesman for the advice. As an added bonus the 1 ton F350 was cheaper than the Tundra and got better mileage.
To answer some of the questions posed by Boonie:
What do you carry that you never use?
Hi-Lift Jack, Lift Mate, Bow Saw, Winch, Winch Accessories...however just because I have never used them yet does not necessarily mean I don't want to carry them (although I am seriously considering eliminating the HI-Lift & Lift Mate)
What add-ons are ineffective, but just add weight?
Can't think of any
What have you done to reduce the weight you are carrying into the boonies?
I try to match the amount of food, drink, water, and fuel I carry to the expected conditions, with a small reserve. Other than that, nothing really.
What are you carrying that you absolutely would not leave behind even if it meant leaving something else at home?
Tools, recovery gear, ample water.
carld, nice list. Too much effort for me. I just took the loaded camper to the truck scales!
cdbrow, My older Ranger II camper has the 1.9cf fridge and a smaller 12 gal water tank. As I posed earlier, if I am going to camp near water ( 90%) I only carry a few gallons and pump stream water from a collapsible bucket through a ceramic filter as needed. My tankless water heater weighs 11lbs and works great. I am almost always alone. I carry tools, but just the minimum. Sockets, wrenches screw drivers, etc. I built the truck so I pretty much know what I need to fix it if necessary. The truck is turbocharged so I carry 2 extra quarts of engine oil. I carry a tow strap and the hooks and rings mounted on the truck frame. I do not have a winch on this rig, but may add a small one on a receiver so I can use it fore or aft if needed. I take mostly freeze dried foods and no liquid drinks. Aluminum and titanium cookware. Maybe 3gals propane. I house battery wired through a constant duty solenoid with no monitors, etc. No porta potti, no chairs, No camper jacks.The only place I can think of to reduce weight on my rig is the camper steps. I have a modified set of Brophy steps that fold up. A plastic step stool would be lighter. I think the older units were much lighter. I remember the specs were something like 595lbs with an ice box. I think the newer models are heavier than advertised.
In contrast, I also have a 1952 Willy's Station Wagon with a small camp trailer that I use for extended hunting trips with wall tent, wood burning stove, 3 way ice chest, table, chair, 8000lb PTO winch, Pull Pal, Hi Lift, etc that weighs in at almost 6800 lbs.
cwd
cdbrow, My older Ranger II camper has the 1.9cf fridge and a smaller 12 gal water tank. As I posed earlier, if I am going to camp near water ( 90%) I only carry a few gallons and pump stream water from a collapsible bucket through a ceramic filter as needed. My tankless water heater weighs 11lbs and works great. I am almost always alone. I carry tools, but just the minimum. Sockets, wrenches screw drivers, etc. I built the truck so I pretty much know what I need to fix it if necessary. The truck is turbocharged so I carry 2 extra quarts of engine oil. I carry a tow strap and the hooks and rings mounted on the truck frame. I do not have a winch on this rig, but may add a small one on a receiver so I can use it fore or aft if needed. I take mostly freeze dried foods and no liquid drinks. Aluminum and titanium cookware. Maybe 3gals propane. I house battery wired through a constant duty solenoid with no monitors, etc. No porta potti, no chairs, No camper jacks.The only place I can think of to reduce weight on my rig is the camper steps. I have a modified set of Brophy steps that fold up. A plastic step stool would be lighter. I think the older units were much lighter. I remember the specs were something like 595lbs with an ice box. I think the newer models are heavier than advertised.
In contrast, I also have a 1952 Willy's Station Wagon with a small camp trailer that I use for extended hunting trips with wall tent, wood burning stove, 3 way ice chest, table, chair, 8000lb PTO winch, Pull Pal, Hi Lift, etc that weighs in at almost 6800 lbs.
cwd
Boonie
Senior Member
OutbacKamper is correct, In my lightweight European concept, I have the vehicle, a stretched Jeep YJ, and I have my camper, a FWC Grandby (with no floor pack) narrowed and custom fit to be permanently mounted. So I am now fitting my needs within the remaining cargo carrying capacity. In reading the responses, I am lucky to be able to custom design what goes into the camper and where to put it, rather than having to live with what and how FWC sells them.
I currently have a 26.5' class C motorhome and am limited to where I can go, so I want to prepare my project vehicle appropriately.
One of the items that I have noticed disparity on carrying or not is "self recovery equipment". As cdbrow said this is a negative spiral. I want to be prepared for the everyday requirements, but I am thinking; do I want to go where all this equipment is necessary? Who said Discretion is the better part of Valor. Every camper should meet the needs of where you are going, but every driver also needs to say I don't have the equipment to go there so I'll go somewhere else rather than carry 100 lbs of equipment just in case they ever need it. That obviously is an individual decision.
I currently have a 26.5' class C motorhome and am limited to where I can go, so I want to prepare my project vehicle appropriately.
One of the items that I have noticed disparity on carrying or not is "self recovery equipment". As cdbrow said this is a negative spiral. I want to be prepared for the everyday requirements, but I am thinking; do I want to go where all this equipment is necessary? Who said Discretion is the better part of Valor. Every camper should meet the needs of where you are going, but every driver also needs to say I don't have the equipment to go there so I'll go somewhere else rather than carry 100 lbs of equipment just in case they ever need it. That obviously is an individual decision.
allanb
Senior Member
Great discussion guys. Lotsa good info for this newbie.
My thinking ,buying the 3/4 ton and big Northstar, big water tank etc, is to have enough to stay in for 2-3 months. Just hoping it works out, otherwise will be looking for a 20' plus motor home or trailer and jeep with light weight camper to get back in with. Big trade offs , big decisions.
My thinking ,buying the 3/4 ton and big Northstar, big water tank etc, is to have enough to stay in for 2-3 months. Just hoping it works out, otherwise will be looking for a 20' plus motor home or trailer and jeep with light weight camper to get back in with. Big trade offs , big decisions.
Curb weight includes a full tank of gas. Gas is not part of your payload.carld said:Have you accounted for everything, truck modes, gasoline, and people. Here is my list:
Boonie
Senior Member
Alley-Kat. A special thanks to you for the link to Camper Builds. After skimming through the ATC camper build of ski3pin, I realized I have a bigger job ahead of me than I thought. Reading all the builds might keep me out of the bars, but as I get started I may be headed to them! I did learn from your comments and your build thread to think in terms of future changes. Also really loved your cleaver use of space with the drawer cutout around the sink drain. The thought you put into your camper is exactly what I am trying to do. Thanks.
CougarCouple
Senior Member
Hi all new guy here.
Interesting thread, some of it got me to where the wife and I are now.
F250 gas motor, full fuel tank and both of us in the truck,7300 lbs if I remember right. 10,000 GVWR. Placed order w/ ATC for the Cougar, so I'm spitballing here but thinking we are going to be right at full when all said and done. Each item adds up fast. Someone earlier made the comment that they would just off road where all the recovery gear was not needed. I don't think it works that way, especially if you go it alone. Still trying to figure what we're going to take, wife wants one of those spot type tracking devices and I kinda like that idea. I've done some off roading before. A little stuck you can get out of, hard stuck not so easy, even with the gear. There has to be close to 500lbs of recovery gear with what some are carrying. So here we are with a vehicle that can "legally" carry what we are putting in it. Getting 5 tons un stuck sounds like a lot of work. I see a lot of photos of ya'lls rigs out in the country, mostly looks like forest service roads, and access roads.
Can some of you who have used your recovery gear, speak up I think it would be a great help.
Thanks Russ
Interesting thread, some of it got me to where the wife and I are now.
F250 gas motor, full fuel tank and both of us in the truck,7300 lbs if I remember right. 10,000 GVWR. Placed order w/ ATC for the Cougar, so I'm spitballing here but thinking we are going to be right at full when all said and done. Each item adds up fast. Someone earlier made the comment that they would just off road where all the recovery gear was not needed. I don't think it works that way, especially if you go it alone. Still trying to figure what we're going to take, wife wants one of those spot type tracking devices and I kinda like that idea. I've done some off roading before. A little stuck you can get out of, hard stuck not so easy, even with the gear. There has to be close to 500lbs of recovery gear with what some are carrying. So here we are with a vehicle that can "legally" carry what we are putting in it. Getting 5 tons un stuck sounds like a lot of work. I see a lot of photos of ya'lls rigs out in the country, mostly looks like forest service roads, and access roads.
Can some of you who have used your recovery gear, speak up I think it would be a great help.
Thanks Russ
OutbacKamper
Senior Member
I think if you factor in recovery gear, tools and "off road modifications" I would be well over 500lbs:CougarCouple said:... There has to be close to 500lbs of recovery gear with what some are carrying...Can some of you who have used your recovery gear, speak up I think it would be a great help...
winch & accesories (shackles, straps, extensions, etc) +150
winch bumper +50
snorkel +15
skid plates +20
suspension lift +40
compressor & accessories +35
Hi-Lift & accessories +60
traction mats +20
shovel +4
axe +4
saw +2
larger (heavier) tires +60
tool kit +25
socket set +10
I am sure I have forgotten a few items, but you get the idea...according to my very rough estimate, that is 495 lb of extra weight.
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