Refrigerators revisited

[Fred Stevens]

Hi 4 Wheelers,

A year ago my wife and I got a Fleet unit for our 2014 Tacoma Access cab. After getting used to the various subsystems, and yes, there were figurative bumps in the road, we’ve enjoyed it immensely. The popup and truck have worked fine but the cold box/reefer that we initially chose requires ice every other day, and that has tied us to campgrounds near stores. It’s time to rethink the refrigeration option. We rarely camp where shore power is available, and solar panels to power a compressor (12/120 volt) type unit is unrealistic since where ever possible we park in the shade. Our Fleet comes with two Exide AGM batteries, each rated at 75AH. Assuming a 2 ampere/hour draw from a compressor unit and not draining the batteries below 50 percent, it seems to me that a compressor unit would be only good for about for a day and half to 2 days without recharging. This is a problem since we generally go to a location and stay for several days before moving on. This leaves a 3-way refrigerator/propane as a possible option. Aside from the “level ground”issue,” I don’t see major problems with a 3 way even while running in transit. To me the risk of gas accumulation in the popup, seems negligible if you simply crack the roof vent and open one of the turnbuckle access ports while driving. That said there is the question of how efficient these units are at keeping things cool. In Tom Hannigan’s excellent video on 4 wheel’s site, he shows a 3 way unit that has a Dometic? factory test sticker on the back. The sticker shows with an ambient temperature in the 70F range (no doubt at the factory), it can get the internal temperature down to around 35-37F, good enough to prevent spoilage. What is not clear is how efficient the unit would be if the ambient temperature was around 85F? Another question. If you were driving with the unit in propane mode, what would happen if you exceeded the level surface requirement? Would it just temporarily shut down and automatically restart later or would it require a manual restart? I would like to hear from others on this question as I plan to take the Fleet back to Woodland this fall for a refrigerator mod and needless to say I want to make the right choice.

Thanks,

 

[The Next Adventures]

Hi Fred,
I can give you my experience with my three way fridge in my eagle camper. I have a norcold fridge and the camper and fridge are 13 years old and yes both perform like new. The fridge operates very efficiently no problem holding below 40 degrees in 100 degree weather on the beach! I run my fridge off the alternator of my truck while driving I would recommend doing the same not running off propane while driving. As far as being level, The fridge will operate within and past the range of comfortable sleeping. To put it another way you would have to be so unlevel that you could not comfortably sleep before the fridge did not work. I would imagine in the past 13 years they have only got better. Living full time in my camper the last 2 years and staying in one location many weeks at a time I am very happy with the three way fridge. I can see a compressor fridge being a bit more convenient for occasional use.

 

[longhorn1]

There are local, city, and state codes that you might run into running the propane fridge while driving. In my opinion you should consider a compressor fridge. We have the 80L and have had no problems. You should ask Brenda at FWC what the majority of people order. It wouldn't surprise me if 3 out of 4 are compressor fridges. Hopefully you will get a good response from your post. Good luck with your choice.

 

[Argonaut20]

I come down in favor of the 3 way fridge. I have used them for years and found that they work well, especially where I intended to stay for several days with no source of shore power to recharge a battery. I had one in my Bobcat, installed a relighter for convenience in keeping it lit while traveling, and had no problem keeping food cold in warm weather. They do not have to be perfectly level to work well, and, as pointed out above, if you are at an angle where the fridge won't work, you won't be able to sleep, either. If properly installed, the combustion end of the fridge is in a box that isolates the burner from the inside of the camper. Propane usage is low. I don't use the 12V capability as the current draw can suck the juice from the battery in short order if you forget to change to propane when camped. I replaced the fridge in my Argosy with a propane/AC fridge when the original propane fridge stopped working at the tender age of 30 years. I plan to put a Dometic propane/AC fridge in the Caravel I am rebuilding. Compressor fridges are great, work well, keep food cold, etc. I just like the propane fridges better.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

I also side with the 3 way.After all they were around long before compressor fridges.
I try to get the camper as level as possible but as said if you are comfortable than the fridge is also.
The way we use ours is to run it at the lowest temp setting (7).
We start out with frozen items and I always carry 2 water bottles frozen inside.
One thing we also now use a Truckfridge cooler for the day to day items.
We started this way of carrying food when we use the ferry's as some of the routes are a couple nights.
It has worked for us and the temps go below freezing mainly at night than in the 30's during the day.
I have even re-frozen water bottles.
The only problem I have had is keeping the flame lit while driving so now I don't bother and use the 12v while driving.
IMO they are a good reliable cooling machine.
Frank

 

[Fallbrook]

14 Fleet here, with a compressor fridge. Damn, they sound great in theory. Even with 270 watts of solar, the rotten thing has spoiled my food no less than a half dozen times. We did just spend $500 to replace the AGM batteries, hoping that the fact that we've run them down so many times compromised them and they're the issue. I hate batteries, and they don't love me much either. The solar does a decent job, but I wish I wouldn't have glued them to the roof, so I could have come up with a way to make them tiltable in the winter, and position them in the sun when I want to be in the shade. I have an old Toyota motorhome, and its propane fridge is amazing. Runs for a month, great freezer, does a killer job and parking angles were never an issue. I didn't have to adjust it much, if at all.

Don't be foolish and listen to the surprising amount of silliness in regards to driving with it on. Leave it running and enjoy cold stuff. You will not be consumed in a mushroom cloud. It's not a damned bomb that needs to be worried about nonstop, it's a little flame that runs a box to keep your beer cold. Just don't be stupid, I mean you'd have to be really dumb, when filling up the truck. Turn it off when the situation warrants it, like on a ferry where you're told to.

All of that said, darn it I want to love the compressor fridge, so lets see if the batteries were the issue. It's quiet and stays right where it's set. I did just order a thermometer set (fridge and freezer) with a wireless monitor and alarms to alert me when the temp heads the wrong way. I suppose I can start the truck when I'm told to by the alarm.

Best of luck!

 

[longhorn1]

I have 100W solar and 2 AGM batteries. I've never had a problem keeping the batteries charged, all the while camping without shore power, using a CPAP machine, the 80L fridge, and lights. We spend a couple of nights in one National Park site and move to another. We spent a week in the Smoky Mountains with lots of rain and still never got below 12.2.
My coment on driving with fridge lite was based on several people who post in reports about it being illegal to drive through tunnels with pilot light on.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Wander The West mobile app

 

[Kispiox]

Ahhh, the debate rages on...... Someone mentioned ordinances against propane while on the road. Yea, doubt that, but if so, they could citation 90+% of rv and trailers on the road but don't citation any. Anyone here ever get a citation? I didn't think so. Gas works as efficient as, if not more so than AC. IT WORKS GREAT WHILE DRIVING! DC operation is a worthless draw down battery killer. DC will only maintain box temp, not recover from an open door or cool down new food for a short time. I was just in triple digit conditions (no zeroes) off the grid eating rock solid frozen ice cream on gas. I do recommend the ancillary fan when in still hot conditions. It does not need to be on while moving or if windy.

I am off the grid often fishing and the level ground thing isn't an issue. 6deg fore and aft and 3deg side is the tolerance. I'd never exceed that overnight and when fishing it has just become automatic to seek a spot within that tolerance and then moving on to the next. It's a non issue that is way overblown by the rock crawler wannabe crowd.

Just put it on "Auto" and go have fun. Buy groceries, parcel the frozen stuff and put it in the freezer and hit the road. Gas will freeze it just as efficient as AC. You do need to throttle it back when in cool conditions because it will freeze stuff in the refer outside of the freezer box.

I don't know about your question about automatically starting and stopping if left extremely out of level because I don't do it. Never had a problem.

I have 95w solar and two AGM G24s for whatever that's worth but the 3way doesn't need it. When my batteries need replaced I'm only going to replace one and save some weight. I just don't need the capacity even in PNW cloudy rain conditions.

 

[billharr]

I am sure many campers have never had a problem with propane. I am not one of them. I had a Norcold in my 2002 Hawk. DC was useless when driving, temp would go up (had a remote thermometer in the truck). Never had the flame blow out but did have the unit just stop cooling. Also had to change the setting each night to keep everything from freezing over night. First time this happened we had a diet soda can EXPLODE and blow the door open in the middle of the night. Everything in the fridge was on the camper floor covered in frozen soda. I love my compressor fridge.

 

[Kispiox]

Wow,.. A soda bomb!!!

I just drove from Klickitat WA where it was 112deg with 3way operating on gas at highest setting. The river browned out because of glacial melt so couldn't fish and so wanted to escape the heat. After a three hour drive to Rockaway Beach, OR where the low night time temperature was 57deg (ahhhhh) I forgot to turn down the refer a notch. The next day I found a few Ice crystals in a prepared salad that I put on the top shelf instead of the bottom shelf where it belonged. The salad was fine to eat and so turned down the refer a notch. I am fortunate to report no soda or beer bombs though.

Guess if you were in Death Valley in the dead of winter on a hot day you might have the refer on max. Then if you drove to Whitney Portal and a front came through bringing the outside temperature (OT) down to -14deg things could get frozen up pretty solid? That OT combined with 8,500' altitude?

I have never experienced any rock solid freezing of any kind outside of the Freezer itself. I also don't know the exact max delta cooling box temperature differential from OT nor the physics of exploding soda bombs but there must have been some interesting environmental condition in play? I am curious if the exploding soda bomb damaged your hinges or latch when it blew your door off? Yikes!

Agreed, DC is worthless. Might use it for a short stint to get you somewhere to fill an empty propane cylinder. That's about the only use for the function that I can imagine. It's either gas or AC for me.

 

[esimmers]

Everyone's fridge usage and storage is different; here's ours. We travel with both kinds - the original 3-way Dometic in the 2009 Hawk and a Dometic/Waeco CF-50 compressor fridge that's powered from the camper battery in the back seat of our F-250 SuperCab.

The 3-way runs on gas all the time unless plugged into AC shore power; DC is just too darn inefficient. There's just so much more potential energy stored in a tank of propane compared to a battery.

We carry a lot of fresh food which fills up the 3-way pretty quickly so I bought the CF-50 to keep plenty of beer nice and cold. We have to be careful with things like lettuce in the 3-way because the bags restrict air circulation in the fridge so much that things can freeze. So we've started putting some vegetables in the CF-50 to prevent that. Good thing I bought the CF-50 rather than a smaller one! This does open up some space in the 3-way for a few beers so it's a win-win all around.

We have a 90-watt solar panel which keeps the original battery fully charged when we're traveling or parked in full sunlight. Even in the shade we can go a couple of days before the battery drops below 50% - and I sleep with a CPAP that draws more juice than the CF-50.

So my advice to anyone with a 3-way is this:

- Use propane or AC shore power,
- The day before you set out, turn on the fridge and cool food and beverages in the house,
- Load the fridge so air can circulate around the food (freezer stuff can be crammed together if already frozen),
- Think about getting one of those cheap indoor-outdoor thermometers to monitor fridge temperatures, and
- GO CAMPING!

 

[PaulT]

--snip-- DC was useless when driving, temp would go up (had a remote thermometer in the truck). --snip--

Any recommendations (or cautions) for remote fridge thermometer?

Paul

 

[Kispiox]

We carry a lot of fresh food which fills up the 3-way pretty quickly so I bought the CF-50 to keep plenty of beer nice and cold. We have to be careful with things like lettuce in the 3-way because the bags restrict air circulation in the fridge so much that things can freeze. So we've started putting some vegetables in the CF-50 to prevent that. Good thing I bought the CF-50 rather than a smaller one! This does open up some space in the 3-way for a few beers so it's a win-win all around.

So my advice to anyone with a 3-way is this:

- Use propane or AC shore power,
- The day before you set out, turn on the fridge and cool food and beverages in the house,
- Load the fridge so air can circulate around the food (freezer stuff can be crammed together if already frozen),
- Think about getting one of those cheap indoor-outdoor thermometers to monitor fridge temperatures, and
- GO CAMPING!

When in the same location and altitude, I find it rare that if left on the given daytime setting night variation in temperature causes produce damage if,.. Stored on the bottom shelf. I also keep produce in produce green bags. I kind of have it tucked in the back of my mind that if a weather change causes a variationn temp to tap the refer control up or down a notch.

I don't have a family and understand your need for additional food storage. I share your need for cold beer and As for additional storage,.. When in cool to cold conditions above freezing, any compartment inside the camper that shares a contiguous outside surface(s) becomes additional perishable food storage. Outside the turnbuckle doors works good too. I call that the root cellar.

Re cooling down on AC before departing,... I notice no difference in cooling capacity between Gas and AC functions. In fact, I'm thinking that Gas is more efficient but have no scientific data to back that up. Agreed though as with any refer it is better to cool the box before adding additional cooling requirement.

RE a thermometer,... A Popsicle a day keeps the thermometer away. A tasty way to monitor. It is either frozen and has not been deformed or it isn't and hasn't.

RE loading the freezer for circulation,... That's always a good idea, but because of the freezer box size, I load it up solid and have never experienced problem with food insulating itself. At least for me it has not been a problem maximizing the storage. If I were gking to the desert maybe I'd differ. Like I said, good advice. When I used to cross oceans in sailboats with large (compressor) mostly engine driven freezer capacity we always stocked with separation and also had circulation fan.

RE go CAMPING,.... RIGHT ON!

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

This has been a good source of "fridge"info.
Yes we all have different needs for our cooling machines.
Our way has worked well for us.
I only wish I could get the gas to stay lit while driving.
On placing food items in the "turn buckle" areas,keep in mind that the "little" animals might and can get into that area.
I had some squirrels get into some zip lock bags I had stored in the left rear area.

On keeping the second fridge in the rear area of the truck,how do you feel when in bear country?
Myself we keep a super clean camp so I don't feel we attract them.
It's more about the camp employees saying something about the "cooler fridge" in the truck.Any thoughts.

Thanks
Frank

 

[Kispiox]

Hi Frank...

If it isn't staying lit, something is wrong. I'd see a specialist or maybe someone else here may know more. Mine stays lit in any and all conditions. The search function here isn't great. I have found doing a Google search for whatever you seek plus wanderthewest does a better job of searching here.

Sealable containers keep root cellar items bug and critter free. They get dirty but not what's inside. That also only works in a certain temp range. I keep bug spray in the propane locker and shoot a circle around each tire. Also boxes, especially corrugated, are a source of bugs, eggs and larva.

RE Bears.... there is all kinds of stuff on this site about bears. Urbanized bears see a cooler anywhere and they associate it with food. Not good. I've done a lot of wild grizzly photography and posted about light perimeter precautions that work. Wild bears don't like a lighted campsite nor do they like humans. Trouble is there are crazy, mean, sick and old bears that act contrary to that expectation.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Thanks, Kispiox.
As I said we are very bear aware,have camped out whole adult life in their areas.I do respect them and the regs about leaving camp stuff out.It's something we have never done,our sties have nothing out weather at night or if we are away during the day.
We do visit Cal.SPs and they always give the don't s especially about coolers.Ours is kept hidden in the rear of the AC cab,and I know they can smell better than see.
I moved the Truckfridge cooler inside the camper and actually like it better there.So that is solved.

I don.t think there is a problem with the 3 way it stays lit even in windy conditions but not on the hwy.
I even made a little shield for it.
I'll have to try it again.It's no biggie and I don't want to install a re-ignited.
Thanks Frank

 

[billharr]

Any recommendations (or cautions) for remote fridge thermometer?

Paul

I saw one a Walmart on sale for $8.88 and tried it worked great. I put the sender unit inside a ziplock bag to keep the moisture away from it. I hung the readout next to my rear view mirror. You can see the AcuRite readout in the picture below.

 

[longhorn1]

This topic has been very informative. It shows how uninformed I have been with the 3-way fridge. When I first started researching campers my first site was RV.net. It was either there or maybe this site that I remember reading about problems people were having with the 3-way (i.e. not level ground, pilot blowing out, ruined food). There were posts about it being illegal to drive through tunnels and this lead me to assume that there might be other issues driving with the gas on. Guess I was wrong. Sorry for those comments. After doing our research we decided on the 80 liter compressor fridge. So far it has worked very well. The dealer told me they keep their dial between 1 & 2, however, after reading other posts on WTW, it seems most keep their dial around 5.5. I might have had our slightly higher one trip and found the yogurt frozen on the bottom shelf against the back wall. That hasn't happened again.

The dealer told us that he keeps an Engle plugged in the 12-V in the backseat of the truck in addition to the fridge in the camper and hasn't had a problem with the battery in his truck. Does anyone else do that off of the truck battery and if so have you killed the truck battery doing that? I have an Engle Deep Blue cooler that does a nice job of keeping all of our drinks iced down, which sits on the back seat, so I'm not sure that I want to spend the money for another fridge since the 80 is doing a great job.

 

[longhorn1]

Everyone's fridge usage and storage is different; here's ours. We travel with both kinds - the original 3-way Dometic in the 2009 Hawk and a Dometic/Waeco CF-50 compressor fridge that's powered from the camper battery in the back seat of our F-250 SuperCab.

The 3-way runs on gas all the time unless plugged into AC shore power; DC is just too darn inefficient. There's just so much more potential energy stored in a tank of propane compared to a battery.

We carry a lot of fresh food which fills up the 3-way pretty quickly so I bought the CF-50 to keep plenty of beer nice and cold. We have to be careful with things like lettuce in the 3-way because the bags restrict air circulation in the fridge so much that things can freeze. So we've started putting some vegetables in the CF-50 to prevent that. Good thing I bought the CF-50 rather than a smaller one! This does open up some space in the 3-way for a few beers so it's a win-win all around.

We have a 90-watt solar panel which keeps the original battery fully charged when we're traveling or parked in full sunlight. Even in the shade we can go a couple of days before the battery drops below 50% - and I sleep with a CPAP that draws more juice than the CF-50.

So my advice to anyone with a 3-way is this:

- Use propane or AC shore power,
- The day before you set out, turn on the fridge and cool food and beverages in the house,
- Load the fridge so air can circulate around the food (freezer stuff can be crammed together if already frozen),
- Think about getting one of those cheap indoor-outdoor thermometers to monitor fridge temperatures, and
- GO CAMPING!

How did you wire the CF-50 to run off the camper battery?

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

How did you wire the CF-50 to run off the camper battery?

I ran the wiring through the same area as the main wire from the truck.
Then up through the jack storage compartment on the right side of the rear cab.
Than just used a lighter style plug.
Works great. Oh also put a fuse inline at the battery.
Frank