Ultimate Flexible Solar Panels - successes and warranty replacements

[RC Pilot Jim]

Reminder on the flex panels...The ones that failed were manufactured by Renogy. They took them off the market and refunded everyone's money..to everyone's satisfaction. Many of us replaced them with the Renogy rigid panel.

Reports by "Kodachrome" on the "HQST" flex panel and "enelson" on the "Global Solar" are positive.

Does anyone else have any positive feedback on any other type of flex panel?

 

[Stalking Light]

I have had great results with my GoPower flexible panels made by Carmanah, I have 2 of their 100w panels in addition to my 100w Zamp rigid and also use the GoPower controller.

 

[Esus]

To follow up on the failures with flexible solar panels - have things improved? Has anyone experienced any failures with the Solar Cynergy 120W panels: https://www.solarblvd.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_25_42&products_id=3083

Or was this problem primarily limited to the renogy panels?

I have two of the Solar Cynergy panels and an HQST 50 watt. No issues with either so far.

 

[rando]

I took a gamble and now have two solar Cynergy Panels that are working well, but have only had them for a couple of months. The weight saving was too tempting. Glad to hear the solar cynergy panels have worked OK so far for others as well. They are installed on the roof, but with weld-mount like studs, not glued/taped down.

FYI I had a failure on a 100W HQST flexible panel on my prior camper.

 

[michgoblue]

I installed 3 of the 120w Cynergy panels on my previous camper last year and have 2 on my current camper. So far so good!

 

[ckent323]

I have read many mixed reviews of flexible solar panels in both RV and Marine/Boating forums.

Does anyone have flexible solar panels that have been operating for over 3 years?

If so I am wondering about the following:

Name of Manufacturer
How was the solar panel mounted (is there air flow under it? Is it directly glued to the roof? or something else)
Has the solar panel been exposed to freezing temperatures
What is the rated panel output in watts
Are you seeing any degradation in output? If so how much?
Are you seeing any degradation in appearance of the panels? If so how much?
Do you leave them on the vehicle full time or do you remove them in the off season or do you somehow protect them when you are not "on the road"?

 

[Old Crow]

I have read many mixed reviews of flexible solar panels in both RV and Marine/Boating forums.

Does anyone have flexible solar panels that have been operating for over 3 years?

If so I am wondering about the following:

Name of Manufacturer
How was the solar panel mounted (is there air flow under it? Is it directly glued to the roof? or something else)
Has the solar panel been exposed to freezing temperatures
What is the rated panel output in watts
Are you seeing any degradation in output? If so how much?
Are you seeing any degradation in appearance of the panels? If so how much?
Do you leave them on the vehicle full time or do you remove them in the off season or do you somehow protect them when you are not "on the road"?

I'm not sure if this is helpful but your post reminds me of a Safari Condo Alto trailer I toured in a campground in Maine two weeks ago. The owners were from the Washington, DC area and were just packing up after 11 days off-grid at that campground to head home. The trailer has two flexible solar panels adhered to the curved roof.

I mentioned the problems we've read of with adhered flexible panels and asked the owner if he had had any issues. He said, no, those are the originals and he has had them five years and no problems at all. He's also a regular reader of the forum for Altos and doesn't remember seeing anything about the problem.

This morning I called one of the Alto dealers in London, Ontario and asked about them. The panels are indeed adhered to the roof and he said they did have a batch of bad panels about three to five years ago... but no problems with them since. He didn't know who the panel manufacturer is.

I took a quick snapshot as I walked away from it and you can (barely) see the panels and the curve of the roof.

(Click to enlarge)



Also-

According to this web post, the panels used by Safari Condo for the Alto are made by Global Solar.

I believe the main forum for Alto owners is a Facebook group called "Altoistes". It's a closed group but I understand it's easy to join if anyone's interested in exploring this further.
.

 

[rando]

To update - both my solar Cynergy panels failed in a hail storm. At least one string of cells in each panel died in the storm, leaving each panel at half current. I have since reverted to a 160W rigid panel and folding portable panel.

To be clear, this was a major hail storm with golf ball sized hail - several thousand dollars worth of damage done to the Tacoma the camper was mounted on, and the camper roof looks like the surface of the moon, but no leaks. About half or two thirds the houses in our neighborhood have roof top solar, and talking to our neighbors, only a few of them lost roof top panels in the same storm, so clearly the glass panels faired much better.

I took a gamble and now have two solar Cynergy Panels that are working well, but have only had them for a couple of months. The weight saving was too tempting. Glad to hear the solar cynergy panels have worked OK so far for others as well. They are installed on the roof, but with weld-mount like studs, not glued/taped down.

FYI I had a failure on a 100W HQST flexible panel on my prior camper.

 

[Stokeme]

This is timely for me. I don’t typically look up to “Ultimate”. I have 2 Solar Cynergy (Solar Blvd, now defunct), 120W panels, so far, so good. Mounted on an alum tube frame, good airflow. Panels have a warped a tiny bit but nothing compromised. Definitely exposed to freezing & heat, no issues. 18 months no cover, did unplug roof solar last Winter. Recently bought Camper/Truck cover for this Winter. I can not speak to output/efficiency then or now. I know enough about what I want, but am conservative about what I don’t, I am a recipe electrician. My 2 panels were ~$120 ea. (I should have purchased 2 more when they were liquidated @$89 ea) I also have a folding 100W flex portable. All my panels are import commodity.
My alum tube frame was welded by a friend, it only weighs ~5lbs. I want to get panels that are equal in size so they will fit my frame. I am eying Alaska in 2 years. I can fit 3 up top on the roof frame (Grandby). I am 12V only with horizontal fridge, heater, LED’s & very small H2O pump. For Alaska I’ve thought about a generator, don’t want to, or get/bring solar replacement materials. I want to stay live, keep the wife warm, when really off the grid.
Rando, Did you have issues with the weight increase on the roof/uplift? You probably know the output with 160W glass vs 240W flex? Can you compare? Hail aside, would you go back to flex? Craig, what do you use now? I figure I have 240W @15lbs on roof, 5lbs/panel & 5lbs/frame.
I am looking at this panel for back stock, same size, looks exactly like the Solar Cynergy. 120W is same size as 160W?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JMQG7Q5/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A2J1SBEEYE72YY&psc=1
This one below has a different surface, ETFE vs PET, claims greater efficiency, any thoughts?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017N7BRX6/ref=psdc_2236628011_t2_B07JMQG7Q5

My first thoughts were that I was ok replacing cheap panels every few years. I just don’t want to lose power when I need it.

 

[DonC]

strokeme - where did you get the truck/camper cover? do you have a link?

I am one of the early adopters of flexible panels, went through 6 panels in about a year. This was when the recommendation was to glue them down - made an absolute mess of my top. Have had rigid panels for years now with no issue. I'm sure they have improved but I'm not going back...

 

[Stokeme]

This is the Empire Cover I purchased ...
https://www.empirecovers.com/detail.aspx?p=EMP77BP&v=EMP77B2P&source=cart

I paid $208, plus $19.24 tax, earlier this year, with a 10% off coupon code, they are currently offering 5%. I am happy enough with the quality (for the price) & if it lasts 4-5 years, I am ok with $48-$60/year for a cover. It could last longer. It is a Big cover, fits my 2018 Ford F-150 w/Super Cab/Camper really well. I have one issue. The zipper seen in the photo zips down, or stated differently, back to front. It runs into my antenna & is stopped. It leaves the passenger side hood corner portion unzipped from the antenna forward. With that said it still covers the Camper really well & most of my truck. If the zipper were reversed, it would work perfectly for me. I will remedy that somehow. The alternatives, for my situation, were both a lot pricier & larger.

 

[DonC]

thanks. I just moved to a location where I store my truck in a dirt lot storage area outside. This would be great.

 

[rando]

This is timely for me. I don’t typically look up to “Ultimate”. I have 2 Solar Cynergy (Solar Blvd, now defunct), 120W panels, so far, so good. Mounted on an alum tube frame, good airflow. Panels have a warped a tiny bit but nothing compromised. Definitely exposed to freezing & heat, no issues. 18 months no cover, did unplug roof solar last Winter. Recently bought Camper/Truck cover for this Winter. I can not speak to output/efficiency then or now. I know enough about what I want, but am conservative about what I don’t, I am a recipe electrician. My 2 panels were ~$120 ea. (I should have purchased 2 more when they were liquidated @$89 ea) I also have a folding 100W flex portable. All my panels are import commodity.
My alum tube frame was welded by a friend, it only weighs ~5lbs. I want to get panels that are equal in size so they will fit my frame. I am eying Alaska in 2 years. I can fit 3 up top on the roof frame (Grandby). I am 12V only with horizontal fridge, heater, LED’s & very small H2O pump. For Alaska I’ve thought about a generator, don’t want to, or get/bring solar replacement materials. I want to stay live, keep the wife warm, when really off the grid.
Rando, Did you have issues with the weight increase on the roof/uplift? You probably know the output with 160W glass vs 240W flex? Can you compare? Hail aside, would you go back to flex? Craig, what do you use now? I figure I have 240W @15lbs on roof, 5lbs/panel & 5lbs/frame.
I am looking at this panel for back stock, same size, looks exactly like the Solar Cynergy. 120W is same size as 160W?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JMQG7Q5/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A2J1SBEEYE72YY&psc=1
This one below has a different surface, ETFE vs PET, claims greater efficiency, any thoughts?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017N7BRX6/ref=psdc_2236628011_t2_B07JMQG7Q5

My first thoughts were that I was ok replacing cheap panels every few years. I just don’t want to lose power when I need it.

You definitely notice the extra weight of a 30lb rigid panel on the roof compared to 5 lbs of flexible panel, but now we use an electric roof lift, so it is not a big deal.

I would prefer to use 240W of flexible panels, and the cost of replacing them was not the issue - it was finding replacement panels that became a pain. Even when the solar cynergy panels were still available, they changed the dimensions of the 120W panel between when I first bought them and when I had to replace them - which meant my mounting brackets would no longer work. That is why I gave up and went back to the 160W rigid panel I had originally.

 

[Stokeme]

Are you familiar with PET vs ETFE flex panel surface?

 

[rando]

Seems to me that the difference between PET and ETFE is light transmittance - maybe ETFE allows slightly more energy to make it to the cells, but the difference would just mean that a 100W ETFE panel could be slightly smaller than a 100W PET panel. I don't think it makes much of any difference with respect to longevity, which is the main issue with flexible panels. The failure mechanism seems to primarily be the cells cracking and the intercell bus bars failing.

 

[DonC]

I spent most of my time on this site a few years ago because of solar and flexible panel issues - what's the best, what are people doing, why the problems, etc. Once I put rigid panels on it saved me a lot of time just on forum/research related issues. Yea, flexible is lighter, but with roof assists, not an issue. And adding 30 lbs to the overall truck/camper weight - not an issue. I pack very light and and am usually by myself, so I'm not worried about the 30 lbs.

Not a precise analogy, but the I know some in the lightweight hiking crowd that will spend $500 to get the latest light tent and save 1 lb, when they could have the same effect by not going to McDonalds and losing a pound of weight. There are lots of ways many could save/compensate for the 30 lbs if that's what you are worried about.

 

[camelracer]

Are you familiar with PET vs ETFE flex panel surface?

I have 2 Lensun ETFE panels and a flexible Renogy PET panel. The ETFE seems much more robust than the PET. The PET surface is soft and easy to scratch while the ETFE looks like it could take a beating.

 

[ckent323]

Stokeme,et al,

I presently have two - 100 watt Grape Solar panels on the camper. I have had these for several years and they work fine.

I have been wanting to upgrade to 300 watts by replacing the rigid panels with flexible panels. I would move the rigid panels to a trailer I have.

I have also been working on my Dad's motor sailor and I want to put solar on it. Semi-flexible panels would be most convenient.

However, I have read quite a bit online about the semi-flexible panels and I am left with the following impressions.



PET panels do not seem to hold up. Some ETFE panels seem to last longer than the typical PET panel

Most folks who comment have not had the panels more than 3 years. Most complaints about failures are within a year of installation.

It seems that even the best flexible panels cannot be counted on to last more than about 5 years and perhaps not longer than 3 years.

(The best semi-flexible panels I know of are Soliban and they are very expensive, Sunpower and Lensun seem to make OK semi-flexible panels based on online user comments

Main semi-flexible panel failure modes are delamination, hot spot burn though, significant clouding causing significant loss in power production.


There are few reviews of semi-flexible solar panels after more than a year of use so lifetime is challenging to sort out.

Here is one reasonable review of performance after a year.

 

[Stokeme]

Thanks for the video, fan of his many others. This flex ETFE Rich Solar panel on Amazon looks interesting to me ...
5 year warranty & efficiency rate is good. Would have to refab my frame a bit, might work for me. If it truly is a 1%/year loss in efficiency, think I am ok with that.
https://www.amazon.com/Richsolar-Extremely-Flexible-Monocrystalline-Solar/dp/B07GQ5DP9R/ref=sr_1_6?gclid=CjwKCAjw_uDsBRAMEiwAaFiHa-1N8HcWXq-J_TTEbepMZKDsH_JSymmJ7WCluM7AmlNO6DtjalWwDRoCJAsQAvD_BwE&hvadid=325160593566&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=1013950&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t2&hvqmt=e&hvrand=17290521014223490074&hvtargid=aud-649564993678%3Akwd-336028792294&hydadcr=334_1011698027&keywords=rich+solar+panel&qid=1570328709&sr=8-6

Q: What is the warranty of this etfe 100 watt panel?
A: 25-year power output warranty: 5-year 95% efficiency rate, 10-year 90% efficiency rate, 25-year 80% efficiency rate
5-year material and workmanship warranty.
By RICH SOLAR on April 19, 2019

 

[ckent323]

My take on Solar Panel warranties in general

They are almost all based on simulated aging tests in a lab
Data on panels still in operation after 20 years is hard to come by
A lot of solar companies have come and gone

Relative to flexible solar panels:

To be sure there have been improvements in flexible panels but there have also been a lot of premature failures with many brands of flexible panels.

My thinking is buy rigid panels whenever possible. If flexible panels are required then buy flexible panels made with ETFE at the best cost/performance point assuming a maximum life of 3 - 5 years.

The Rich Solar Panels, Renogy, King Solar and SunPower panels might be candidates.

I would think hard about which companies have been around the longest and which may be most likely to back a warrante

Caveat Emptor