Bear Question

[brett13]

My wife and I are disagreeing on this: when in bear country with a popup like ATC/FWC, do you store your food (cooler) in the camper, in the truck or outside away from the rig? This is provided there are no bear boxes available.

 

[flinchlock]

Did you ever hear the story about a bear ripping the door off of a van to get a piece of gum?

I do not even keep toothpaste in my camper in bear country... my 2 cents worth.

Mike

 

[pvstoy]

I would keep the cooler in the camper. Put a blanket or something over it so if the bear looks in the window won't see the cooler. Some bears are trained when they see a cooler, plastic bag etc. they have found food inside and will break in thinking a free meal. Out of sight is best. If you put it in the cab of the truck, make sure it is all covered up. If you put it outside away from the rig then it will become a bear soccer toy until it explodes open. Remember a bear's nose is very good at smelling out food.

 

[flinchlock]

http://www.bearsmart.com/backcountryManners/Camping.html

Food should only be stored in your vehicle as a last resort.

My last 2 cents worth, good luck,
Mike

 

[EdoHart]

I'm with Flinchlock

Bears have an incredible sense of smell, they're strong enough to open any car or camper door, and they don't care about repair costs. Free roaming dogs can be a great deterrent to bear incursions, but they're no guarantee. I would rather sacrifice some food, than to give the bears a reason to open my truck like a can of sardines.

I've seen the doors torn off a school bus because someone left something worth while inside, a latched Coleman cooler peeled open, and my VW Rabbit passenger side door ripped asunder because I put a cooler with raw meat inside. I'll never do that again!

 

[HERR42]

keep the food in the camper.... keep the loaded .45 on top of the firdge as a deterrent!

 

[EdoHart]

With all due respect to HERR42

For a deterrent to be affective, the aggressor (in this case a bear) must know you have the deterrence before it enters the range in which the deterrence becomes a threat to the aggressor. Placing a firearm on top of the refrigerator (the item of the bear's interest) may merely render that firearm inaccessible to you when it counts.

If one is going to rely on a firearm to protect oneself from a bear, I suggest said firearm be kept close and away from the food, or other scent, which may attract the bear in the first place.

Finally, I'm not sure a .45 is sufficient to stop a bear. Depending on the species and size of the bear, it may merely anger the bear.

 

[HERR42]

hey...you dont think they would notice that the occupant is a armed citizen and back off?

bears these days have no respect!

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ok ok....the answer to the question is this: keep the food away from sleeping, unaware people.

you have no choice.

but ... bears are easily frightened away by noises....except the the grossly trained Yogi types in Jellostone. lotsa noise....thats my approach..and it has worked many many times for the regular black bears we see up in Plumas and Tahoe NF. we are very careful to announce our presence. it makes a lot of difference.

 

[flinchlock]

If you miss, or it just glances off the bear, what about other possible campers near by, or your sleeping partner?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=130163

make sure you have the best self defense ammo you can afford, load gun to maximum capacity, and if you are unfortunate enough to be attacked by a grizzly or black bear be sure to put all 7 rounds into the center of mass and save the last round for you. It will make the mauling you are going to get a lot more comfortable

My last last 2 cents worth, good luck,
Mike

 

[flinchlock]

but ... bears are easily frightened away by noises
Just play RAP music all night long.

Mike

P.S. Is "RAP" and "music" allowed in the same sentence?

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

First, if you store your food in your tent or camper or if you like a midnight snack of candy, pop, doughnuts, or cookies, you will be inviting a bear or a family of bears right into your world.

Hoist it up into a tree (between 10 and 15 feet) or store it in a bear can.

Don't clean fish in or near your camp and don't leave the fish entrails lying around — unless you want to see a bear up close and personal.

Don't leave your ice chest sitting out where a bear can get to it. Bears have no problem getting into and eating anything you have in the chest.

Bears will drink your milk, soda pop or beer (yes, they can open the cans), they will rip your cooler apart and will tear your tent down if they think they will get an easy meal out of it.

Take the bears seriously and keep your food out of their reach. If you do that one simple thing you won't have any bear problems on your high country camping trips this year.

 

[EdoHart]

The right to bare arms or the right to arm bears?

hey...you dont think they would notice that the occupant is a armed citizen and back off?

bears these days have no respect!

---------------------

ok ok....the answer to the question is this: keep the food away from sleeping, unaware people.

you have no choice.

but ... bears are easily frightened away by noises....except the the grossly trained Yogi types in Jellostone. lotsa noise....thats my approach..and it has worked many many times for the regular black bears we see up in Plumas and Tahoe NF. we are very careful to announce our presence. it makes a lot of difference.

We're lousy with bears that don't respect us. But seriously, noise is the best deterrent, 3 dogs make a lot of noise, and they make that noise at the slightest provocation when there is no other camper for miles around.

 

[Blazer]

Wait until they are asleep....

Go steelhead fishing in late fall, after the bears are hibernating
(I hate fighting with them for salmon)

Blazer

 

[brett13]

Wow. I opened a can of worms here. For what its worth, my buddy is in the FBI on special teams and when I asked him this question, he told me a .357 has enough power/force (velocity x weight) for black bears, but maybe not Grizzly depending on size.

My own thought was to keep it in the truck (covered out of sight) because that is far more airtight than the camper and less likely to "leak" smells. Of course, I will be sleeping right over the cab- what 12" from the top of the door? I keep a .357 in the camper and also bear pepper spray. I figure it this way: if I am in the camper and bear wanders over, I will see/hear it. I should have plenty of time to 1st set off the car alarm which ought to scare him away. My dog would be barking up a storm by now too. If not, I've got pepper spray and finally the .357. In a tent, your ability to not be surprised and react rationally is far, far less.

You can't really hang or bear can cold/frozen foods. When hiking, I guess you have to store the cooler somewhere- truck or camper. My preference would be camper (less expensive to fix if "can opened"?).

We end up brushing our teeth, what, 50ft from the campsite? So, our smells are out there.

Of course, maybe I'll just stick to pasta in bear country which should be relatively safe, but boring.

 

[Brian]

Bears...

I can't help but step in here and trust it won't turn into too much of a rant.
I lived in Alaska for 22 years: in southeast Alaska where there are everything from coastal brown to black, Kodiak Island where the Kodiak brown lives, three summers out in a road camp 50 miles out the park road in Denali Nat'l. Park as well as two summers right in headquarters there and 10 years on the Kenai Peninsula where there are tons of black bear.
I have to tell you that even with Grizzlies walking through camp in Denali nearly every day and myself and two young sons living in a bus conversion with a refridgerator right outside the door on a pallet, fishing all over amongst the bear, canoeing all over the Kenai wildlife Refuge with hunters leaving gut piles everywhere, working out in the bush cutting firebreaks on the refuge with sows and cubs right next to me......that I have never felt as threatened as I am hearing here. By 10 years old my youngest son had more bear experience stories than most adults will have in a lifetime of camping.
I personally know four people who were mauled by a bear and lived through it...so I am not minimizing the danger but taking a few stories of encounters and thinking that it is going to happen to me is a little out of proportion. Frankly, a handgun is a psychological bandaid and a great thing to talk about while having a beer and relating what you will do when in that situation....a hunting and outdoor newspaper editor in Anchorage was attacked by a pi--ed off blackie on the Kenai and emptied his .44 magnum at point blank range into the bear, was still mauled and the bear was able to take off and hide before it died. In my opinion, take normal precautions, don't get all worried about it and don't let your fantasies get carried away.
I saw the same phenomenom in Alaska with guys who would never travel in the lower 48 without a gun in the truck...because of all the crazies raping and pillaging down here. Well, in my 63 years of life and some pretty extreme traveling the only time I had a problem was once while working on a carnaval in the 60's when I was accosted with a handgun by a carnie in the heat of an arguement and once in NYC in the late 60's when I was the object of an attempted mugging by a junky. Does crap happen...sure it does but not really all that often and more than likely not to me. If I thought it would I would stay home and not travel in Central America...man did people go crazy over that and the bands of crazed banditos and drug runners and all that we were supposed to find there instead of the beautiful, kind and friendly people that we did.
One thing that I did with my camper for "security" is to wire floodlights on both sides and the rear with switches in the camper as well as a horn button wired to the truck horn. Never used them yet for security but I did wake up the only other campers near us in Panajachel, Guat. at about 4 in the AM when I was reaching for the T.P. which we keep near the horn button ....apologies all around.
Happy trails,
Brian

 

[flinchlock]

Brain,

Thank you so very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It really does help me to not be scared to death about bears!!!

Next to getting married, having kids, discovering ATC and FWC, your post is life changing for me.

Mike

 

[Brian]

I'm so sure....

Mike,
I am pleased to have made "a changing day in your life" (spoken in a southern accent like Dr. Phil).....
Brian (Grizzly Adams)

 

[simimike]

I agree with what Brian said. I've camped in bear country since I was a Boy Scout. I've had one bear incident. I left my ice chest on the bench and a bear knocked it over spilling the contents on the ground. He took my bacon and ran off. I of course was outraged over the beer lying on the ground and learned my lesson. Use the bear box for the love of Pete!
When you hear tragic stories like the one where the boy in Utah was taken from his tent and killed it breaks your hart. But considering that millions of people camp in bear country every year without any contact with bears makes that incident stand out. I have never heard of a bear entering a occupied RV and injuring the people inside. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just that I've never seen or read about it. My bear precautions consist of not leaving food out and keeping a clean camp site.
I have thought about buying some bear spray. More for people than bears.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[brett13]

Thanks, Brian. Well said.

A couple of opinions to add:

Bear boxes- I have only seen them in Yellowstone and Yosemite and few other places. I would use them if they were there.

Pepper spray- I was chatting with a ranger in Yellowstone, who happened to give the "bear talks" at Old Faithful. He told me that pepper spray has been shown to be 100% effective against black bears in all encounters. Good enough for me.

Firearms- I grew up on the east coast, where you are always on the look out for nutjobs. So having a handgun with me when I am out in the middle of nowhere (wilderness is "nowhere" to us former urbanites), seems reasonable since you can't exactly shout for help (not that anyone would help in NYC anyway ). And I have never encountered anything but nice, friendly, helpful people when travelling out west. A person feeling safe and/or prepared is a personal matter- to each his own.

Well, thats my $0.02.

 

[chnlisle]

Brian,
Several folks have told me that campers like ours and other pop ups are now not being allowed into Denali. They say it's because of the fabric tops and bears. Are you aware of this? I too have camped in bear country and although I've seen plenty I've never had an incident. We've been to Denali but rented a truck and hard sided camper.