Bendable Solar Panels and Compressor Refrigerators

alano said:
I'm having trouble thinking of an example of plastic oxidizing. Can you elaborate?

Alan
Click to expand...
A good example would be headlights or plastic body parts on a car or motorcycle. Its the reason our plastic headlights get cloudy and why I love my old corolla's glass headlights.
 
Ether so far I see no signs of oxidation, The truck sits in a carport when not being driven.I see no "fogging" either. I have been rinsing the top with plain softened water (I have a spigot after my water conditioner) so it doesn't water spot. I don't see any change in the clear top sheet.

Alan and Craig
The Renology panel is " sandwiched" between 2 layers of plastic- opaque on the bottom and clear on the top.
 
I second RC Pilot Jim's thoughts.
I've had mine for 1-2 years with no issues at all.
You can get oxidation on the metal rings that are used to tie them down, but no issues elsewhere.
 
RC and DrJ-

I'm glad to hear these hold up so well. How do you store yours DrJ?

I will be mounting mine before my next break. I'm still considering the velcro especially since i don't have a second panel. Has anyone installed these panels on an older 2 piece roof with the screws? I need to think of a good way to cover these so they dont poke through the panels.
 
Mine is on my truck for probably half of the year. The rest of the time it is in a storage unit.

Your Velcro idea is actually not a bad one. I originally thought about that too. I finally just put on a whole bunch of panels so I would charge to full no matter where I parked. 340 watts of solar goes a long ways.

I've had portable panels before and they take a lot of effort to reposition all day. The best set up is probably some on the roof and some to deploy when you are in the shade.

I've only put them on newer roofs but it probably doesn't matter the age.
 
Ethergore.

You are correct that polymer solar cells can degrade because of contact with oxygen and moisture from the air (coupled with heat). Further, ultraviolet light tends to degrade polymer chains. However, some polymers are more resistant than others. Hence the use of an encapsulant to protect them. I have seen literature discussing the use of materials in the encapsulant that can absorb the UV and re-emit it as visible light.

The questions are: Is the Renology panel resistant to UV and O2 degradation. What is the warranted life of the panel?

In general, it is my understanding that flexible solar panels have a shorter life (around 10 years) than traditional Si/Glass solar panels.(20 years or more). Also, the efficiency of flexible solar panels is less than traditional solar panels, so for an equivalent output the flexible panels need more area.

Seems like Renology should know the answer to these basic questions about the materials they use. Would be great if they would disclose the the whole stack up of materials including adhesives and sealants. Knowing that information one could look up the materials and their susceptability to degradation independently and be able to ask informed follow-up questions.

Regards,

Craig
 
ckent323 said:
Ethergore.

You are correct that polymer solar cells can degrade because of contact with oxygen and moisture from the air (coupled with heat). Further, ultraviolet light tends to degrade polymer chains. However, some polymers are more resistant than others. Hence the use of an encapsulant to protect them. I have seen literature discussing the use of materials in the encapsulant that can absorb the UV and re-emit it as visible light.

The questions are: Is the Renology panel resistant to UV and O2 degradation. What is the warranted life of the panel?

In general, it is my understanding that flexible solar panels have a shorter life (around 10 years) than traditional Si/Glass solar panels.(20 years or more). Also, the efficiency of flexible solar panels is less than traditional solar panels, so for an equivalent output the flexible panels need more area.

Seems like Renology should know the answer to these basic questions about the materials they use. Would be great if they would disclose the the whole stack up of materials including adhesives and sealants. Knowing that information one could look up the materials and their susceptability to degradation independently and be able to ask informed follow-up questions.

Regards,

Craig
Click to expand...
They are closed today so I sent them an email asking about what they think of long term exposure to sun and other elements. Lets see what they know.
 
Never got an email back from Renogy so I gave them a call today. The cells are laminated in TPT Plastic which are supposed to be excellent in their resistance to UV light (makes sense with a solar panel), as well as, high temperature, humidity, etc. I couldn't find out much about the material other than this page if anyone is interested: http://water2009.en.ec21.com/Tpt_Film_Solar_Tpt_Film--3769919_3769920.html.

I also did some searching about my velcro idea by contacting iTapestore.com who have great customer service. They said that dual lock 3m velcro would hold the panel no problem, however, the adhesive will not bond well with TPT plastic. They said it would work well with the aluminum if I stripped the paint. So unless I feel like gluing an aluminum plate to the back of my panel I cannot use velcro.

I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet and buy extra panels for portable use.
 
How about using a non sticky-backed velcro and attaching it to the panel with VHB tape or something of the sort? Or do VHB and similar products have the same problem with TPT plastic?


"...They said that dual lock 3m velcro would hold the panel no problem, however, the adhesive will not bond well with TPT plastic. They said it would work well with the aluminum if I stripped the paint. So unless I feel like gluing an aluminum plate to the back of my panel I cannot use velcro.

I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet and buy extra panels for portable use."
 
That's not a bad idea. I was also considering gluing the panel to another material that will adhere.

At this point in considering the added expense and risk of the panel blowing off anyways I think I'm just going to glue it like our fellow trailblazers here. If I get the 5 years or of it I'll be happy.
 
Field Report

In March the sun is higher in the sky. I covered the panel and ran the fridge until the battery was down to 80% full. Parked the truck in full sun checked the Trimetric reading - panel now producing 3.5 charging amps with no load (fridge off). took 7 hours to charge it back to 98% before the sun went behind the hill.

Note: When battery get to 90% full, charging amps drop to " pt 9 - 1.1" . Volts increase to 14.2 (AGM battery) which tops it off.

Engle fridge draws avg of 1.5 net amps per hour. Rounding it off to 2 amps means one 80 amp hour battery with 40 usable amp hours will run for 20 hours before needing to be charged.

Conclusion:
So far I only need one 100 watt panel running at 60% efficiency in wintertime

Recommendation:
If your average night amp draw is higher than 3 amps and you have more than 14 hours of darkness per day you should have 2 batteries and 2 - 100 watt panels on the roof.
 
Glue panel down with 3M marine adhesive 4000

http://www.amazon.com/Marine-Adhesive-Sealant-Resistant-White/dp/B006814GAK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1426869026&sr=8-4&keywords=3m+4000+uv


You will need a 10 oz tube and a caulking gun.

Working time about 15 minutes

Flat roof
Lay a half inch bead about half inch in from the edge around the perimeter of the panel. Then another bead at a 45 degree angle inside the first bead (up and down) motion.

Ribbed roof
Put glue on the ribs then lay panel on top.

Assume you would caulk the screws under the panel with the 4000 not sure as we have the flat roof.

Clean the glue area with Acetone to get all the oil, etc off it to get a good contact.

For pictures wiring ideas - review page 3 #23, page 5 # 50, page 7 #66.
Harv (photohc) suggested silicone tape to cover exposed wires - page 7 # 62
 
Field Report

Panel has been on for almost 9 months and 5,000 miles. Checking the contact it is just as secure as when installed.
Silicone wire wrap holding up well. No blistering. The bendable panel rides the roof "ripple" well.

We have not used the 60 watt aluminum frame backup since installation.

Nest step is summer camping in the mountains.
 
One of the better "bendable" products we used "down range" and are making an appearance in the domestic market are by PowerFilm.

Well known in smaller circles, they are a leading provider of solar arrays to specialty units.

They had a setup at OX-West with some very interesting products.

I was shown a proto-type 2W rollable panel which charges a LIB which in turn has a mini USB charging port. While obviously not designed for our campers, it does fit very nicely on the outside of a 3-Day pack.

The proto-type supplements the current offering.
 
Guys- I want to thank everyone for their contributions to this thread. As a perspective FWC buyer in preparation for our retirement adventures I have been researching what I have to do to stay off the grid for an extended period of time and obviously solar is a big part of that equation. Unfortunately it's something I don't have much experience/knowledge with.

In reading through the previous 12 pages it doesn't seem that there are any real negatives with going with the bendable panels as oppose to the factory panels. Am I correct?

Thanks again!
 
Well, there's always tradeoffs... Some would say that if you glue the panels to your roof the negatives are:
- No airflow under the panel, which makes it get hot and run less efficiently (solar panels do better when cold, which might be counterintuitive)
- No airflow... which makes the interior ceiling hotter inside your camper
- If the panel fails it's a major pain to deal with

I've got some glued to my roof and am happy, but just some things to be aware of.
 
smlobx said:
Guys- I want to thank everyone for their contributions to this thread. As a perspective FWC buyer in preparation for our retirement adventures I have been researching what I have to do to stay off the grid for an extended period of time and obviously solar is a big part of that equation. Unfortunately it's something I don't have much experience/knowledge with.

In reading through the previous 12 pages it doesn't seem that there are any real negatives with going with the bendable panels as oppose to the factory panels. Am I correct?

Thanks again!
Click to expand...
I started out last April with very little knowledge of solar. By October, I had a 200W system running well. I pretty much followed HandyBob's advice: https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/

I went with rigid panels for three reasons:
1. heat buildup - direct contact with the roof will transfer more heat to the interior. My Grandby gets hot in the sun as it is,
I don't want to add more.
2. scratch resistance - some places I go have low overhanging tree branches. My camper has numerous scratches on the roof.
Plastic is softer than glass.
3. Flexible panels have not been on the market long enough to know their longevity. There have been reports of deformation
and cupping of cells in flexible panels:
http://www.technomadia.com/2014/11/zephyr-is-solar-powered-800-watt-rv-bus-roof-solar-install/

YMMV
jim
 
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