External Power To Hawk: Is 15 amp 110 Service enough?

[Wallowa]

Going to Anthony Lakes Ski Area with some friends, they have electrical outlets [a few] some 30 amps and some 15 amps...

Any opinions on how many amps is minimal? Intend to run a small electrical heater while there, rated at 12.5 amps...I am guessing that 15 amps would be cutting it thin when using water pump, refrig, and IOTA/charger.

Will try of course for 30 amps for electrical hook-up; but if necessary considering hooking up to 15 amps if that is all that is available and using it in the daytime with electrical heater to keep water from freezing and then disconnecting 110 and going to batteries and furnace at night.

Thanks in advance...

Phil

 

[klahanie]

Do you know if the 30amp service have only a single receptacle ? Sometimes the service will have a 30 as well as 15 - then you could run a dedicated extension cord just for the elec heater and leave it on all the time (if you trust the appliance...)

Otherwise, I agree, you'd be pushing it. Winter camping hook up is the reason I redid my system with a 30 amp distribution box, so I have 2 x 15amp circuits inside.

I guess you could cheat with a 30 to 2x15 cord splitter but it's risky with out proper fusing.

 

[PaulT]

The Iota DLS-30 draws a maximum of 7.3 amps AC (450 watts) when putting out its maximum 30 amps. However, it can draw as much as 30 amps AC for one power cycle when first plugged in. This should not cause any problem with a 15 amp source for such a short time.
https://www.iotaengineering.com/dls30.htm

The larger issue is the draw of the portable heater. The fridge will draw from AC when present but the other devices will draw fron the battery or Iota. If you allow the batteries to be fully charged from the Iota before turning on the portable heater, there should be little concern about exceeding the circuit amperage for any significant time. We run a 1500 watt heater on its 600 watt setting when camping in the cold with electric hookups. It doesn't run for very long at all and power cycles as needed. After getting the internal temp as desired, we turn down the heater thermostat until it just turns off. It really doesn't run that frequently.

We still plug into the 30 amp circuit where available camping but use a 20 amp circuit at home when it's cold enough to justify plugging in the camper to run the heater.

Paul

 

[Wallowa]

Lacking the knowledge to ask the right questions, but I will try...

My IOTA has the IQ4 controller..when on solar or 110 I assume the batteries are charged through this unit..with 110 external AC power is wired to the outlets in the Hawk and powers the IOTA IQ4. But do the refrigerator and water pump only run off DC? Or, can the refrigerator run on AC or DC. I assume the Hawk water pump and furnace are DC only? Correct?

On 110 the IOTA draws 7.3 amps AC and puts out 30 amps DC...correct? What is the initial "30 amps AC" when first plugged in? Confused on the 7.3 vs 30 amp draw. As the IOTA on AC floats the DC charge on my two AGM batteries does it draw 7.3 amps of AC or higher?

My small electric space heater is on a thermostat so it would be cycling on and off; not constantly on. Does the rating of "12.5 amps" on this heater indicate the max current draw for the heater at max watts?

Interesting question about outlets available at the Resort. Two plug ins in each box are indicated at 30 and 15 amp sites, but I don't know if the plugs have the max number of amps for that site in both plugs [30 or 15] or if each outlet/plug is half the max box amperage...will call them and ask.

Sorry to be so lame on this and yes, I could look all this up...but don't really trust my interpretations.

Thanks...Phil

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Do you have the big, heavy 30 ampre power cable? My Grandby just had the 30a adapter, so it was still just a matter of using an extension cord.

 

[PaulT]

Lacking the knowledge to ask the right questions, but I will try...

My IOTA has the IQ4 controller..when on solar or 110 I assume the batteries are charged through this unit..with 110 external AC power is wired to the outlets in the Hawk and powers the IOTA IQ4. But do the refrigerator and water pump only run off DC? Or, can the refrigerator run on AC or DC. I assume the Hawk water pump and furnace are DC only? Correct?

On 110 the IOTA draws 7.3 amps AC and puts out 30 amps DC...correct? What is the initial "30 amps AC" when first plugged in? Confused on the 7.3 vs 30 amp draw. As the IOTA on AC floats the DC charge on my two AGM batteries does it draw 7.3 amps of AC or higher?

My small electric space heater is on a thermostat so it would be cycling on and off; not constantly on. Does the rating of "12.5 amps" on this heater indicate the max current draw for the heater at max watts?

Interesting question about outlets available at the Resort. Two plug ins in each box are indicated at 30 and 15 amp sites, but I don't know if the plugs have the max number of amps for that site in both plugs [30 or 15] or if each outlet/plug is half the max box amperage...will call them and ask.

Sorry to be so lame on this and yes, I could look all this up...but don't really trust my interpretations.

Thanks...Phil

Fridge runs on AC if available else on DC. Switches by itself.
Iota is powered by AC and provides DC power to any DC power users that are running and/or charges the batteries.

There are 60 AC power cycles per second. On application of AC power, the Iota pulls up to 30 AC amps for the first power cycle of the 60 power cycles in the first second to fill internal components like capacitors and inductors that store energy. Then it pulls up to 7.3 AC amps when putting out its maximum 30 DC amps. When less DC power is being put out, less AC power is consumed.

If batteries are really low, the Iota could be putting out 30 DC amps to charge them in the bulk phase, then less as they become charged. In float, the current is likely well under 1 DC amp to the batteries but it may be powering other DC only loads like furnace, water pump, fantastic fan, or lights.

There are commonly two heating elements and a fan in the space heaters. 600 and 900 watts separately or 1500 watts together.
Heater pulling 12.5 amps at 120 volts ==> 1500 watts.
Heater pulling 7.5 amps at 120 volts ==> 900 watts
Heater pulling 5 amps at 120 volts ==> 600 watts

If someone else sees I screwed something up, please post corrections.

Paul

 

[Wallowa]

Do you have the big, heavy 30 ampre power cable? My Grandby just had the 30a adapter, so it was still just a matter of using an extension cord.

If you mean is my extension cord rated to 30 amps..then yes, plus I have the FWC connector between the Hawk and extension cord that is massive....

Need to confirm this...thanks.

Phil

 

[Wallowa]

Fridge runs on AC if available else on DC. Switches by itself.
Iota is powered by AC and provides DC power to any DC power users that are running and/or charges the batteries.

There are 60 AC power cycles per second. On application of AC power, the Iota pulls up to 30 AC amps for the first power cycle of the 60 power cycles in the first second to fill internal components like capacitors and inductors that store energy. Then it pulls up to 7.3 AC amps when putting out its maximum 30 DC amps. When less DC power is being put out, less AC power is consumed.

If batteries are really low, the Iota could be putting out 30 DC amps to charge them in the bulk phase, then less as they become charged. In float, the current is likely well under 1 DC amp to the batteries but it may be powering other DC only loads like furnace, water pump, fantastic fan, or lights.

There are commonly two heating elements and a fan in the space heaters. 600 and 900 watts separately or 1500 watts together.
Heater pulling 12.5 amps at 120 volts ==> 1500 watts.
Heater pulling 7.5 amps at 120 volts ==> 900 watts
Heater pulling 5 amps at 120 volts ==> 600 watts

If someone else sees I screwed something up, please post corrections.

Paul

Great download of info...and clear enough for even me to grasp! Forgot the Fantastic fans [2]...they do draw some current especially on "high" but we almost never run them on anything but "low." and normally only one at a time. LED lights would be minimal and I added some nifty stick on AA powered lights in the Hawk...tap on, tap off...plenty of light...in fact the LEDs really glare, so much so that I have taped over a portion of the lights..

No idea of what the space heater is drawing and surprised to see three "settings" always assumed only one heater power/watt setting...either on or off...will check on this and thanks...I assume this will also be on a low setting, but have no idea how the thermostat ramps up the number of watts needed to maintain a temp setting.

Thanks all...this is coming into focus.

Phil

 

[craig333]

Only plugged in a couple times. My batteries typically have a full charge from the solar no worries about 30amp there. Fridge and lights. My little electric heater has never been run on high, no need for that. I'd be surprised if anyone maxes out a 15 amp service.

 

[Wallowa]

Only plugged in a couple times. My batteries typically have a full charge from the solar no worries about 30amp there. Fridge and lights. My little electric heater has never been run on high, no need for that. I'd be surprised if anyone maxes out a 15 amp service.

Craig...I got lost on this...batteries being fully charged vs 110 electric space heater being used in lieu of FWC forced air propane heater..if I am plugged in to outside 110 only my fridge, IOTA and space heater go to AC, correct? And Fantastic fans, forced air heater fan, water pump, hot water igniter, LEDs still on DC.

I think what you mean is if the batteries are at 100% then IOTA will not need much to float the charge and all other incoming AC goes to fridge/space heater and 15 amps should cover that.

Question: What if I try to draw more AC amps than are coming into the Hawk? Appliance can't have a brown out can they? Negative outcomes?

Thanks for your help...Phil

 

[klahanie]

If you mean is my extension cord rated to 30 amps..then yes, plus I have the FWC connector between the Hawk and extension cord that is massive....

Need to confirm this...thanks.

Phil

Sounds like you have a 30 amp 110V electrical system in your camper (?) If so then you should be fine with the 30 amp site. My old camper was 15 amp.

Yes one could have a selectable output space heater but if I was camping in winter and had shore power you bet I'd have that heater cranked up.

FWIW I have the iota 45. Even using on flat batteries it has never tripped a 15amp breaker

 

[klahanie]

btw are these FWC supplied iotas just for charging or are they also used for camper supply voltage (12V).

Put another way, when plugged in to 110 does the 30 amp iota/converter supply all needed 12v to the camper (so there is no draw from the batteries) ?

 

[PaulT]

btw are these FWC supplied iotas just for charging or are they also used for camper supply voltage (12V).

Put another way, when plugged in to 110 does the 30 amp iota/converter supply all needed 12v to the camper (so there is no draw from the batteries) ?

Yes, as long as you are pulling 30 amps DC or less.
If you exceed the 30 amps DC put out by the Iota, the extra power must come from the batteries.

Paul

 

[rando]

I think the furnace in my FWC is 10000 BTU/h output in silly units, which is 3kW in reasonable units. I would guess that my furnace runs about 30% of the time when it is around 20F out, meaning you would need about 900W to keep the camper warm at 20F. So you would probably be ok with running the heater continuously on the 900W setting (7.5A), leaving plenty of amps for the fridge (~1A at 120V) lights and all the rest. If you are plugged in the IOTA will quickly bring the battery up to float and then it will stay there as long as you are plugged in. But if there is a 30A outlet available, why not use it?

 

[Wallowa]

I think the furnace in my FWC is 10000 BTU/h output in silly units, which is 3kW in reasonable units. I would guess that my furnace runs about 30% of the time when it is around 20F out, meaning you would need about 900W to keep the camper warm at 20F. So you would probably be ok with running the heater continuously on the 900W setting (7.5A), leaving plenty of amps for the fridge (~1A at 120V) lights and all the rest. If you are plugged in the IOTA will quickly bring the battery up to float and then it will stay there as long as you are plugged in. But if there is a 30A outlet available, why not use it?

You folks are nailing my questions; heck even I understand the answers! Thanks...I will try to get a 30 amp site...but they are limited and remaining ones, also limited are 15 amp..

I may have missed it...but what happens if the amps available to the system are insufficient for the appliance draw [such as draw of 20 amps with a supply of 15 amps]? Damage to appliances?

Thanks..Phil

 

[rando]

A breaker trips - either in your camper or on the hookup pedestal.

 

[klahanie]

I may have missed it...but what happens if the amps available to the system are insufficient for the appliance draw [such as draw of 20 amps with a supply of 15 amps]? Damage to appliances?

That scenario should trip a circuit breaker or fuse (OCPD), preventing damage to appliance and circuit wiring. There should be a breaker at the camp site service pole - if there is not then I'd be more careful. Not an electrician but I believe the breaker for the plug in receptacle should trip at 80% of the rated circuit under continuous load, defined as longer than 3 hrs (15 becomes 12amps).

Just curious ... did you determine if you have a 30 amp system in your camper ? . If so is there more than one 110 circuit breaker in the camper 'fuse panel' (I'm assuming there is at least one wall mounted 110 receptacle inside - this you could plug the heater into and a second circuit for the fridge, iota etc).

If you get a 15 amp site I'm thinking you could prob run a 900w (8A) heater and the Iota (7A) together (assume all camper is powered 12V incl fridge).

I'd take a 30 amp to 15 amp male adapter and a regular 15 amp extension cord just in case.

 

[Wallowa]

A breaker trips - either in your camper or on the hookup pedestal.

Wow, thanks! I always thought a breaker only opened when amperage was too high...thanks for the education. Did not know they worked if amperage draw exceeded supplied amperage. That is good news.

Phil

 

[PackRat]

If your camper has a circuit breaker built into it between the shore power connection and all internal devices then just check to see if it is a 15 amp or 30 amp. That tells you how much DRAW the camper wiring will allow you to pull. You can't just upgrade a system by replacing the factory installed 15 amp breaker (or 20 if that is what is in there) with a 30 amp without also insuring that the wiring can handle the draw. It would be the same if you tried to use an under-rated extension cord to operate a device pulling more power than the wiring was rated for. There is a reason heavier gauge wiring is used where more power will be pulled through it.

Sounds to me like a conversation with the mfger is the best way to go here as they know what they installed and why they chose whatever gauge wiring they used and which breaker they originally installed.

 

[Wallowa]

If your camper has a circuit breaker built into it between the shore power connection and all internal devices then just check to see if it is a 15 amp or 30 amp. That tells you how much DRAW the camper wiring will allow you to pull. You can't just upgrade a system by replacing the factory installed 15 amp breaker (or 20 if that is what is in there) with a 30 amp without also insuring that the wiring can handle the draw. It would be the same if you tried to use an under-rated extension cord to operate a device pulling more power than the wiring was rated for. There is a reason heavier gauge wiring is used where more power will be pulled through it.

Sounds to me like a conversation with the mfger is the best way to go here as they know what they installed and why they chose whatever gauge wiring they used and which breaker they originally installed.

PR,

Not sure what you are alluding to; maybe I am missing something. Our '16 Hawk is wired and rated to 30 amps...each appliance or circuit in the Hawk has a circuit breaker or fuse...there never was any question about the Hawk wiring, only if I could get by using an external 110 outlet that was rated to 15 amps and use the appliances I needed to...looks like I will be able to secure a 30 amp outlet at Anthony Lake Ski Resort by getting there very early..damn, might have to spend a week in Hawk and skiing every day!

Phil