Mounting a Second Solar Panel On a Hawk

The Zamp controller is a PWM controller, which is not as efficient as an MPPT controller which is somewhat more important in the the less than ideal sun Pacific NW. The Zamp is also only 12 V nominal input, so multiple solar panels must be connected in parallel. When connecting panels in parallel, you want the Vmp (typically 16 V to 19 V) voltage spec of the panels to be similar. The more the difference, the less the efficiency. Call Zamp to find out the Vmp of there 160 W panels. I did a few moths ago but I replaced my Za,p 160 W instead and I don't remember the Vmp.

The Hawk probably has 12 AWG wire, which can handle 320 W (20 A at 16 V).

If you decide to upgrade your charge controller, I strongly recommend the Victron 30/100 MPPT . It is a clear cut above Renogy, Zamp and the others. With bluetooth, the MPPT can be out of sight and you can still monitor its operation. If you get the $30 battery voltage and temperature monitor, distance from the battery is not important and 10 AWG will will be fine.

I do have 5 year old 160 W panel here in Portland to unload if you can figure out how to mount it at 26" wide. PM me if interested.
 
Jack,

Information dense post and appreciated! Obviously I need to educate myself on the abbreviations and more importantly an understanding of how all the component pieces integrate.

What did you replace your Zamp 160w panel with? Had a thought; why not remove my existing 160w and just go to single larger panel in lieu of adding a second panel.

Will look at Victron 30/100 MPPT you recommended. What new or changed wiring is required when replacing my Zamp 30 controller with Victron?

Email in to Zamp yesterday and will call them Monday.

Again many thanks to all for the information and patience in explanations.

Phil
 
Phil,

I know he used 1/8th aluminum angle bar from a box store to mount the panel to the tracks. He called Zamp asking if the lower height would be a problem with heat. They told him not to worry. There is plenty of ventilation.

Dan I will ask him to send a photo...
 
I had the FWC roof rack and the Zamp on z bars screwed into the roof. A lot of work to take off, but I laid down 3 100 W HQST flexible panels with velcro. The velcro is on the sides and front, leaving an air gap and flow path. I've got a simple USB temperature logger that I will slide under a panel to track temperatures to see if my system provides adequate cooling. If we were regulars in Baja, I would have somehow raised the panels up a good half inch or more, but we tend to head North - for three years running, we encountered snow storms in August (note my avatar). Going from about 45 lb to about 18 lb, my wife can now raise the roof.

A single large panel will weigh significantly less than two panels. At 300 W or so, you can consider home solar panels. When I was researching panels, I came across a 320 W for $150 on Craigslist - they had ordered one panel too many. That panel would have fit, but 45 lb was more weight than I wanted and it would have meant more holes in the roof. Vic Harder has such a panel on his rig. If you know someone who is installing a home system, they might be able to order an extra panel for you. In bulk, panels are cheaper.

The wiring should be straightforward. The Zamp controller will have two pairs of terminals, "Solar" and "Battery". Just transfer the wires to the Victron "PV" and "Battery", respectively. Make sure "+" goes to "+" and "-" goes to "-". If the wires are not already labeled (FWC began doing that a few years ago), its wise to label the wires before moving them.

Be sure to buy the Victron from one of their dealers - all warranty is handled through dealers. I got mine from PKYS (https://shop.pkys.com). They were fast, the price was good and they rate well.

I mounted my Victron MPPT behind the kitchen cabinet, out of sight, but with Bluetooth, I can see all parameters. You can even turn off charging with bluetooth when you are working on interior wiring.

A battery monitor is also a good idea. There are a lot of very good but expensive ones out there (I have one) but consider a low cost option that Will Prowse (youtube) has found. It's probably not as accurate as the $200 Victron battery monitor, but at $42 it answers the same question. When I had AGM batteries I would just glance at the meter to know if I was on the path to draw them down below about 50%. And over the 5 years I had the AGM battereis, I could see them being drawn down a bit more each year. They still have some life in them, but my LiFePO4 will most likely outlast me, so I switched. The Victron MPPT can handle all types of batteries, including ones I had never heard of.

https://www.amazon.com/AiLi-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Voltage-Motorhome/dp/B07FGFFHC6/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2BSDNTEQY44DS&dchild=1&keywords=battery+monitor+aili&qid=1606078513&sprefix=battery+monitor+a%2Caps%2C441&sr=8-5
 
Jack...

Thanks not just for the details but all the time it took to compile and send this post...very thorough and appreciated.

I was looking at the Victron products today....slow learning curve but I am getting there...your suggestion for a dealer is golden, thanks.

In my bliss I never thought of all the do-dahs that make up the electrical system in my Hawk....the IOTA Q4, the Zamp controller [with a monitor] and the Separator....Soooooo, I am considering the Victron 300/100 controller, Vitron MPPT Monitor [if not too $$] and a Blue Sea 7611. Heck, I even now know what "MPPT" means.

I am a self-confessed old curmudgeon that refuses to enter the "electronic communication age"...so Blue-Tooth with the Victron would be wasted on me....but I am open to change...slight change :cool: ...maybe... :rolleyes:

All this an more solar panel output....

Thanks Again,

Phil
 
Phil, sorry for not jumping in when you asked me to! It seems Jack has said the important things in very plain language. I do have a 300+ watt panel on the roof of my camper. I have seen 500+ Watt panels are coming soon. Same size, same price. Good time to be getting into solar!
 
We old dogs can learn new tricks, it just takes more time...

Setting up Bluetooth with the Victron is relatively simple and Victron's instructions are pretty clear. Once setup, you just tap on the Victron App on your phone and you are looking at the controller information. If you have trouble, post. One of us will get you through it.

MPPT stands for Maximum Power Point Tracking. "12 V" solar panels actually output a voltage that can run from about 13 V to about 24 V. For any given level of sun on the panel, there is a voltage sweet spot where you get the maximum watts (power) from the panel. Watts equals volts times current and an MPPT controller keeps varying (tracking) the voltage to get the maximum power. That sweet spot keeps changing as a cloud goes by, as the sun moves across the sky, etc.

Victron periodically sends out software updates to its equipment for includes bug fixes and sometimes additional features "OTA". That's Over the Air, which really means over the internet and is how your smart phone gets updated. It's free.
 
Vic,

"I have seen 500+ Watt panels are coming soon. Same size, same price. Good time to be getting into solar!" Ah....when? I can hold off on additional panel or replacing my 160W.....thanks!

Jack,

"We old dogs can learn new tricks, it just takes more time..." So true.... but worth the effort and time.

Figured out the difference between PWM and MPPT.... not a cost vs benefit over time thing analysis, but perhaps the difference in staying in the boonies longer with sketchy sun and preventing AGMs from going below 50% ...so I am going for a Victron MPPT controller & monitor after talking to PKYS [sale now on also] tomorrow...ordered a 7611 today...

Thanks all and I will get back in touch once I see a clear path...

Appreciate all the help!

Phil
 
Phil

Have not heard back from my friend but I think this photo is representative of how he mounted the panel.

Dan
 

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Phil, I don't think you will need a ZAMP specific splitter. These are pretty standard throughout the industry unless ZAMP has specific connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/BougeRV-Connectors-Branch-Parallel-Adapter/dp/B0753X68PS/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=0CVtI6Or2eyne5fTSkpKJw&hsa_cr_id=3726472690101&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_0


Wallowa said:
Pvstoy,

Thanks I did not know that was a possibility...BUT currently I have 22 inches maximum between the two captured nuts in the Yakima rail and the dimensions of the 90W are 58.3 [distance between the rails] / 13.6 wide / 1.5 thick...so I should have enough room and not need to "drill" into the top..."any penetration, no matter how slight" into the exterior siding or top of my Hawk and I blanch and run away....

Must contact Zamp and see exactly how the panel mounts to the rails [my Yakima rails] and if they indeed offer a splitter cable so that I can plug both panels in parallel into the existing FWC solar wire plug on the top...

Thanks again...

Phil
Click to expand...
 
Just talked to folks at PKYS, the Victron dealer in USA...bad news for me.

Their MPPT controller will only "find the sweet spot" optimizing amps to batteries if that controller is linked to IDENTICAL solar panels. Controller can not optimize amps to batteries with differing solar panel outputs.

If the voltage out-put / watts of the panels, even if in parallel, are different then the MPPT feature will not function.

SO...I either install one larger panel to replace my Zamp 160W; then install the MPPT controller ..or, stick with the Zamp PWM controller and add another panel to roof rails [90w Long].....

Glad I found that out before purchasing the Victron MPPT Contoller...

Phil

Ps...Just added an other option...stick with 160W but change out the Zamp PWM and install the Victron MPPT; not sure if the amperage gained is worth all the effort with only 160Ws available.
 
A word of caution on Zamp. I have read that Zamp panels (do or did) swap + and - at the SAE roof connector. I replaced my roof SAE connector with an MC4 roof connector and did not pay attention to the Zamp polarity. The wiring in the roof is red for + and black for -. If you plan to keep the SAE connector, unplug the Zamp panel and check the voltage from the wire from the panel with a voltmeter/multimeter to find out the SAE polarity. Replacing the roof connector with an MC4 roof connector is not too hard. You can reuse one screw hole and need to drill another. Be sure to seal well. The MC4 has a groove on the bottom that I filled with siliprene and then siliprened around the edge of the connector. 3M 5200 also works and can be usually found at Home Depot or marine supply stores. Wear old cloths - both caulks are messy to work with. If you stay with the SAE connector, be sure to caulk all around the plug - the connector is really not weatherproof. (One of the plusses to the Victron: wrong polarity from the panels will warm it up but not harm it, according to Victron.)

SAE
SAE.jpg

MC4
mc4.jpg
 
Wallowa said:
Just talked to folks at PKYS, the Victron dealer in USA...bad news for me.

Their MPPT controller will only "find the sweet spot" optimizing amps to batteries if that controller is linked to IDENTICAL solar panels. Controller can not optimize amps to batteries with differing solar panel outputs.

If the voltage out-put / watts of the panels, even if in parallel, are different then the MPPT feature will not function.
Click to expand...
I'd be willing to bet their explanation or your understand are a bit of an oversimplification. This affects all solar panels. It has nothing to do w/ the controller. But the actual functioning of the cells of the solar panels. If you mix different voltages, the max voltage the system will see is the lowest panels voltage. Just due to the way the silicon wafers function. So no matter what controller you use, if you mix voltages, like 18v panels and 28v panels, you will be throwing away that extra 10v.. which could be about 1/3 of the power of those higher voltage panels.

So, the MPPT controller will track and try to get the most out of the lowest voltage panel.
And the PWM controller will only see the voltage of the lowest voltage panel.

It doesn't matter what controller you use.. It's a function of the cells.
 
Wicked 1,

Thanks for that! Called Zamp just before reading your post; then recalled them after reading your post...two points:

#1 All Zamp panels have the same 18v output; so PWM will not lose power with multi-Zamp panels.

#2 According to Zamp; MPPT controllers only effectively optimizes power input to the batteries if you have 1,000w or more.

Sooooo... I will be adding a Zamp 90w 'Long' Legacy panel to my rails and using their "Y" splitter ["ZS-RV-Y"] to put the panels in parallel. Giving me 250w on roof....adding about 14 lbs to roof....

Next option after solar is a generator; which if I go to serious winter camping with little solar that may necessitate a generator...

Would like to add the Victron monitor as the Zamp controller panel does not give % battery. Is the Monitor a stand-alone unit?

Thanks again to all the information; it all helps.

Phil

Ps...In the future LiPo4 batteries may be my next move; Zamp Controller can handle Li, but don't know about current from Tundra or IOTA Q4 shore power.
 
About MPPT vs PWM, their answer is a bit of an oversimplification again.. MPPT can take your full voltage and convert it into more current @ ~14-15v for the battery. PWM can only chop off the excess voltage. That matters much more when using higher voltage panels.
So, if your battery needs 14.5v to charge and your panels are putting out 18, minus maybe 1.5v drop in the wires, you are chopping off about 2v of your power and throwing it away. But realistically you won't get 18v out of the panels, so are probably not wasting much, if anything. So their answer in relation to their 18v panels is probably good enough.
But if you are looking at higher voltage panels, the difference matters, even for a single panel.
 
Wicked 1,

Again a concise explanation that even I could understand; thanks again.

Yes, it seems that Zamp panel 18 v outputs are matched to the Zamp PWM controller.

Phil
 
Charlie,

Wow...great resource and thanks....so much for me to sort out...but I never thought to overhang a panel beyond the end of the Yakima rail....

After reading that thread...I am not considering other than Zamp panels...but in the end it has to be simplistic for me to grasp it and get it done..like findng Z channel aluminum to mount panels on...

Anyway many thanks again...you did a beautiful job!

[Ps...my '05 Tundra only has a 26 gallon tank so your large Tundra tank makes me very envious!]

Phil
 
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