Boonie

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
193
Location
Brighton, Colorado
It seems everybody wants to carry more, move from a 1/2 ton to 3/4, 3/4 to 1 ton, the high-end "expedition" campers are now on a Ford F550 chassis. That's the American way. Bigger is better, but what about the classic European expeditionary vehicles based on a Land Rover Defender where you have to think about what you carry. Every vehicle is a compromise, where are you going, how long will you be gone, what type of accomodations do you require? For me, I live in Colorado. I don't go on expeditions, but I want to go to remote places where it is hard for the crowd to get to. I stay in one place no longer than seven days. To accomplish this my vehicle will be smaller and will by necessity have to fit in my garage, max 7' tall. But at the same time I want to live inside the vehicle. (I have put away enough wet tents, and/or set up enough in the rain.) My vehicle will be a stretched Jeep YJ with a narrowed and custom fit FWC Granby. (Maybe a future thread.)

So I would like to ask the experienced adventurers; What do you carry that you never use? What add-ons are ineffective, but just add weight? What have you done to reduce the weight you are carrying into the boonies? What are you carrying that you absolutely would not leave behind even if it meant leaving something else at home? Thanks in advance for your insight.
 
To me, with my Ford Ranger and ATC Bobcat Shell that I built the interior, low weight is essential.

I only carry water in the 2.5 gallon plastic containers, I usually have 2 of them, no water tank for me. Easy to recycle the plastic containers and buy more water when needed. Also field refillable if needed.

I carried my cast iron cookwere for a trip or two and then they were no longer needed or wanted.

My first interior design was all 110VAC electric using a Honda 2000 generator, my second interior design nixed all the 110VAC stuff including the generator and now I have a propane furnace and stove top with the propane tank. Saved a little weight going with the second design.

I had built a sink in a cabinet, however, I never used it, I now have a plastic tub that is a multitasker, sink on counter top and storage bin in a cabinet. To me, sinks are an enabler to use more water than necessary.

I created an inside portable shower (modified utility sink for the pan) and a modified Zodi shower curtain using an outside Zodi Extreme water heater. I filter water from any local source with my Sawyer drip bag filter system for the shower, I only need about 1 gallon per person. So, I don't carry any water in the Zodi water heater tank. Thus all of this only weighs about 15 lbs.

Absolutely necessary for me is my 135 watt solar panel and 100 amp/hr Lifeline AGM battery to operate my 12VDC only fridge, LED lights, Fantasic Fan in roof and the propane furnace fan. No other 12VDC electronic devices,like TV, charging stations, etc. No electrical connection to the truck battery.

All my interior cabinets, seats, etc, are 1/2" plywood with some construction techniques of dado's for strength and routing out part of the 1/2" plywood on non-visable areas retaining strength where needed.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Looking forward to your build thread on your stretched Jeep YJ with a narrowed and custom fit FWC Granby.
 
Similar to Alley-Kat. ATC Ocelot, part built out by myself. No fridge, just ice box ATC installed. Don't need the refrigeration, use ice if really necessary. Small Propex furnace which is more than enough even in zero degrees to keep the camper comfortable. Did install a two burner propane stove. No sink, we use a plastic basin. Carry water in 5 gln to 2.5 gln containers, so can take just what we need and no pump, etc. We do carry an ARB compressor since deflating the tires does help with long washboard roads and when I carry my float tube it inflates quickly. Built the minimum number of drawers we felt we needed - other storage is in plastic bins or nylon bags (Mountainsmith Cubes) that are also just taken as needed. That is the big stuff to keep the weight down - if that makes sense.
 
Alley-Kat,
Great the hear from someone else who thinks that light weight is a valid option. Thanks for you input.

What do you use for a stove top, do you carry an outdoor grill and what size propane bottle do you carry? What 12vdc fridge do you use? I have heard the battery drain is very high with these, so I was thinking of staying with the LP/12vdc frig in the Granby.

I was thinking of a similar inside/outside shower arrangement, but for what little hot water that I use, I was thinking of solar hot water, or a Zodi concept water tank that I could heat with my cooking stove. To avoid the battery drain of a furnace fan, I would probably not use the Granby furnace with fan, but change to a catalytic (maybe a Wave 3). What do you use for a toilet? Gray water collection?

I have a Renogy 100w suitcase solar panel, and was thinking of adding 100w flexible panel on my roof. I assume your single battery has been able to handle your needs. I will also have a Fan-tastic vent fan and LED lights.

Many campers that I have had over the years have used 1" pine with a 1/8" plywood skin for cabinet construction that surprised me as both cheap, lightweight and strong, so I was thinking that route for the cabinets, lockers, etc.
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The stretched Jeep/Granby idea was inspired by the Action Camper
 
Taku,
Have not heard of a Propex furnace, so thanks, I'll check that out. Is your 2 burner stove permanently mounted or removable? I was thinking of taking the idea from pop-up campers and have mine removable with an attachment point on the outside of the camper.
 
Stove top is a two burner SMEV.

In the first interior I had two 12VDC top loading compressor fridge/freezer (depends on how you set the temp, either one or the other, but not both), and they were very low amperage units, about 0.8 amps per hour after initial cool down, Second interior is a Truck Fridge 12VDC front loader where the cooling plate makes a freezer at the top of the interior of the fridge. I can make ice cubes and keep ice cream and other stuff frozen. It's not as efficient at about 1.5 amps per hour.

I decided from the start, when I got my ATC Bobcat Shell that I may want several different interiors, so, I built lightweight boxes, without backs and screw them together and the bottom ones are screwed into the wood floor pack.

Shower details are illustrated in my camper build, go there to see the first and second interioir build.

I'm the 9th build down from the top in this fantastic thread compiled by Mark BC about a lot of owner builds (fantasic ideas abound).
Read them all, it'll keep you out of the bars for a long time.

Camper Builds.
 
When I decided to get the camper I was using a camper shell. I had several rubber maid totes with my camping gear, food, recovery gear. I had everything pretty well set up for one guy, but two could work as long as they were close friends or married. I bought the camper and moved some stuff into the camper and some stuff didn't go in because the camper had it already. after it was all said and done the truck and camper was only 600 pounds heavier than the truck and shell used to be. But I am MUCH more comfortable. And my wife is MUCH, MUCH more comfortable.
 
take the back rest off, if you don't sleep down there... 40lbs I bet. We had it out, I put it back in, but gonna take it back out I think. Not very comfy and blocks the window. I do prefer to sleep down there sometimes but oh well. Stop eating doughnuts, switch from IPA's to Mexican Lagers to loose weight.
 
I am always amazed at some of the weights posted and all of the suspension modifications involved to carry the loads. I have a 1986 Toyota Turbo pick up with a mid '90's ranger II (now Eagle) and I am under 1000 pounds wet, completely loaded for a 2 week hunt. The camper is equipped with a forced air furnace, Wave heater as well, Reflectix artic pack, 2 burner stove, 3 way fridge, 350watt Honda generator, 12v compressor, on demand propane hot water heater/inside/outside shower, BBQ, leveling blocks, hunting gear, and some recovery gear. My vehicle with the loaded camper is 4700 pounds. I think the older models were much lighter than the new offerings are today. I do not carry a lot of items that need refrigeration. Mostly freeze dried foods, instant drinks with water, etc. I carry a minimum amount of water if I know there is water where I will be staying. I pump it into my house tank through a ceramic filter. Anything I haven't use for 2 or more trips gets left behind. Basically, I pack like a backpacker. The result is a very light, comfortable, nimble rig for use in the bacxkcountry.

CWD
 
Interesting answers...of course the "what is essential and what is light weight' is an entirely subjective evaluation of the person building or using the camper/vehicle..

I agree that many tend to keep "adding to cart" with no end it sight. But having said that, it may work for them.

Guessing what you absolutely need will depend on your use. And again, defining "absolutely need" gets out in the weeds. Simple slam dunk like carrying a spare tire...for most of us over our lifetime the spare tire has been out of sight, out of mind and never used...but like your next breath, when you need it you need it...question of probability.

My high lift jack is a case in point....it will most likely never be used...but like Dumbo's feather it brings peace of mind, but never over-confidence...

Our full kit Hawk on a '05 Tundra SR5 AC is just what we like, not need, so we are happy as clams at high tide!

Phil
 
CWD,
My GVWR is 4300 lbs. so my wet (camper) weight can only be 775 lbs. thus the idea behind the thread is to get ideas as in your case; what would you eliminate to reduce your weight by 225 lbs? Amen to the light, comfortable, nimble rig.
Phil
I probably will carry a hi-lift jack because I can use it to change a tire, lift the vehicle for extraction, and even as a substitute winch (which I will not be equipped with). I am sure there is a thread for 101 uses of a hi-lift jack. (splitting firewood, beating on Big foot)
Stormtrooper
I gave up IPA's, but it still didn't help "reduce weight"! My reconfigured Granby will not have the side sofa, so the back rest and the side window are already gone. I think the refrigerator and a closet/drawers will be on that side.

To all I did not mention that the unit will need to accommodate two, but only two.
 
I used to be more concerned with weight savings than I am now, mostly because I realize the vehicle doesn't care if there is another few hundred pounds if properly placed, and in some cases it is an advantage (traction). If you're in Colorado you're going to have different needs at different times of the year. Another consideration is what you'll have to carry either way.

You state you may not move for seven days. Seven days of water for two people is roughly 10 - 15 gallons. If you're not moving for seven days, that's a half dozen 2.5 gallon containers. Makes much more sense to have a water tank onboard in that case. If you're concerned about water you can only fill it with 10 gallons and bring a collapsible container stowed away that you can (maybe) fill at the location. The weight of water is the same whether you carry 10 gallons in 2.5 gallon containers or in a built in tank.

I've found carrying individual propane to be much more inconvenient than having a propane furnace and stove built in. Stowing the individual canisters along with the portable heater and stove is harder (takes more room) than having a built in. The weight is negligible between a built in stove and furnace than with portables, and the convenience is much greater with the built in.

A refrigerator is safer and much more convenient than dealing with the weight and size of a proper ice box/chest, and you don't have to deal with the melted ice/water or having to move it when it gets in the way. For a seven day camp, you'll have to buy one of the best made ice chests out there, pack it in the most efficient manner. Much easier to use a properly sized and efficiently built refrigerator.

You can also bring a portable fan instead of a Fantastic Fan built into the roof. You can bring a couple D-cell flashlights that weigh more than the LED lights in the ceiling. You can go on and on with cutting options only to bring the same thing as a "portable."

Bottom line, you can get the camper to weigh less, but you'll pack it with more "portable" stuff. So, it ends up, much more than some people understand, not a matter weight savings. I would consider what you think is essential, not in a camper, but for a camping experience. Then purchase the options that you would bring with you anyway.

One of the main reasons, other than convenience is that the campers are designed very well. They'll have the water tank, propane tanks, the furnace, stove, refrigerator, lights, etc., etc., located in places that just plain work, easy to access without having to pull other things out of the same bin or cabinet. They'll be in areas you'll probably wish you could put your portables. They'll be relatively low center of gravity too, and won't weigh significantly more than what you're going to be bringing along.

Now to address your question about essentials. Furnace, stove, refrigerator, water tank. I also carry, depending on the time of year, several fishing rods, two sets of tire chains, a chainsaw, an air compressor, tire repair kit, first aid kit and not much else. Because I have the optional equipment instead of a shell, I can top off my water tank as necessary and hit the road. I don't have to prepare a bunch of bins with gear and be afraid I'm missing something. My bed is made and ready to sleep in, my furnace and stove are ready to light and all I have to do is find the place on the map I want to go and pull out of the driveway. Does my loaded truck weigh more than someone with a shell? Yes, sometimes. Probably not much more though when we're both ready to hit the road.
 
Oh, I would ditch the Hi-Lift. There are better alternatives that weigh less and do a better job. It is a compromise tool that doesn't work great for anything.
 
I carry a Hi-Lift but I wouldn't change a tire with it. If you intend to use it for recovery get a lift mate and an offroad base for it too. I know, those aren't suggestions for reducing weight. ;)
 
Great discussion based on other's experiences...best way to learn.

Hi-lift jack, depending on whether or not you have a suitable lifting point [really none on our Tundra other than possibly front and rear receivers], can be used for changing/repairing a flat but not easily...the nifty Lift-mate works well at getting a wheel up, but then for a flat you need to find something for under the frame to hold it up....

I do not have a winch so the Hi-Lift is better than a Come-Along if I need to pull our rig out of a "situation"..still sketchy since a good anchor and rigging are required.

ACE hits all the marks with his comments...I agree with him that cobing together the gear rather than trusting that FWC after 3 decades of experience has worked out the CG/placement/components just doesn't seem the way to go...old adage can be modified to fit the circumstances but "Penny wise and pound foolish" makes sense. It is tough for me not bring along the kitchen sink...just added the Viair 450P compressor...but somethings will get left at home...time will tell.

Overloaded vehicle? In our case, rear air bags & anti-sway bar...stouter tires...and then slowing down especially when off road..hey, it is all about perception, like ACE sez our Tundra will not know that we are above GVW if I pay attention to how I drive it..

Out October trip to Escalante/GSC area will put the Tundra/Hawk to the test for certain..especially now that they have just had three different weather warnings...low land flooding, canyon flash floods and road washouts...yeeeha.

Phil
 
Boonie, You cannot get to your GVWR of 4300 pounds and have enough stuff. I bet your Grandby weighs 775 pounds alone as a shell. My camper actually weighed 980 pounds as described earlier on a truck scale. I have never stayed in a campground and am only in the camper after dark when I am done hunting/fishing. The only gear I could remove is the Honda 350 generator (20lbs w/fuel) and maybe the 12v air compressor (8lbs) and the Wave heater (12lbs). The leveling blocks are around 8lbs or so, but a lot handier than rocks and sticks. My on demand water heater/shower systems weighs less than 20 lbs and my BBQ weighs less than 10 lbs. My cooking gear is lightweight aluminum or titanium. I carry some extra parts for the truck as well as the FSM. I do not carry chairs or have an awning since it is usually not easy to find a campsite flat enough to make use of those. I do not have a screen door or a fantastic fan. Never needed them and you lose 1" inside with he screen door. No porta potti. I carry a down sleeping bag and jacket. I have the old style couch which is lightweight and gives you 7" more aisle space. I could remove the cab over pads (maybe 15 lbs?) since I am usually by myself and sleep on the couch. The older campers are shorter in height and save some weight there. My hunting/fishing gear is what it is but usually less than 50lbs unless I am going big game hunting out of state. In that case I have to take my custom cargo carrier with a Yeti cooler and 2 5 gal gas cans. That adds 100+lbs and full of meat I am at or over my 1300lb payload. About the only areas I see for weight savings is to drop from a 20lb to a 10lb propane tank and the camper steps. I agree about ditching the Hi Lift. I have carried one on my Jeep for years, but only used it once. I also agree that built in appliances are lighter and handier than portable units.

cwd
 
I carry the Hi-Lift. I also have the lift mate and the base. I can lift the wheel and put on tire chains without moving the truck. That came in handy one night I was parked above the snake river in a flash flood. I was parked on clay and it was slippery as snot.
 
One thing to keep in mind when considering weight and available payload is to remember that if you are over your max payload, the fraction you are over is a fraction of your GVWR not your payload capacity. For example on my Tacoma my available payload is 1200 lbs. With my FWC, people, gear and water we will probably be close to 1700lb of payload. This is nearly 50% over the payload which sounds bad, but it is less than 10% over the GVWR (5600). Would it be better to be lighter and under the GVWR? Of course! But it is not like the engineering tolerances on the vehicle are so tight that 10% below the GVWR everything is fine and 10% over the GVWR everything goes to pot. Any time you are close to the GVWR you need to drive with greater caution and you may want to pay more attention to wear and maintenance. That said, going to 50% OVER your GVWR would probably cause issues. We are definitely considering weight in our build out, but not obsessing over it as we know we will be heavy what ever we do.
 
rando said:
One thing to keep in mind when considering weight and available payload is to remember that if you are over your max payload, the fraction you are over is a fraction of your GVWR not your payload capacity. For example on my Tacoma my available payload is 1200 lbs. With my FWC, people, gear and water we will probably be close to 1700lb of payload. This is nearly 50% over the payload which sounds bad, but it is less than 10% over the GVWR (5600). Would it be better to be lighter and under the GVWR? Off course. But it is not like the engineering tolerances on the vehicle are so tight that 10% below the GVWR everything is fine and 10% over the GVWR everything goes to pot. Any time you are close to the GVWR you need to drive with greater caution and you may want to pay more attention to wear and maintenance. That said, going to 50% OVER your GVWR would probably cause issues. We are definitely considering weight in our build out, but not obsessing over it as we know we will be heavy what ever we do.
Rando,thank you for the thought about GVRW,my thoughts all along.
And yes we should be cautious about driving our rigs even if they aren't over the payload.
Frank
 
Because I found the weight distribution of my Grandby to be totally unacceptable. Propane tank, water tank, furnace, sink, stove, and refrigerator all on the left side and except for the refrigerator all behind the back axle! I will be reconfiguring it with the weight on top of and forward of the rear axle. In so doing I have the ability to take a serious look at what is built-in or what is portable, what is included and what is left out, what I need and what I don't need. As Phil said " this is a great discussion"


CDW, a sneak peak of the camper build. It is permanently mounted on the stretched Jeep so there is no wooden floor pack, thus the reduced weight, but that will be another thread. I intend to carry a porta potti, (my wife hasn't master the pee-on-the-tree technique yet). I will not carry 2 1/2 gal. of fresh water in it however, I will be recycling gray water for flushing.
 

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