Ultimate Battery Thread

[Vic Harder]

Can you charge them fully somehow and confirm voltage and SOC?
Any idea how many charge/discharge cycles those batteries have seen?

Just using voltage I agree those batteries are likely toast. Question is why? If you only ever discharged to 50% you should still get hundreds of days (and years of elapsed time) of usage out of them.

Phil (Wallowa) just sent me this vid:

Battle Born 12v Battery: How to Determine State of Charge (vs lead acid) - Bing video

 

[dennis 221]

6am on monitor 10.6- off- o o A- 0 W -1.8V (20 -24.) 0 KWH , all means nothing to me.. maybe to you???

 

[Vic Harder]

A picture would be better!

 

[Wallowa]

6am on monitor 10.6- off- o o A- 0 W -1.8V (20 -24.) 0 KWH , all means nothing to me.. maybe to you???


========================================

Just saw this thread come back alive...I assume you have two AGMs [2x 75ah ?] and that this is a FWC....if that "10.6" or previous "10.2" is the voltage shown for those batteries, then my guess is that they are either dead-right-there or severely damaged...Vic is correct, a picture of your BMV monitor?

If they are damaged or dead like Vic said why? Most likely insufficient charging and/or excessive draw down..

Suggest testing the voltage on each battery separately and then charging each with a stand-alone battery charger; but then if nothing shows up, take them into to battery shop for a load test...voltage alone may not show a weakness...

These are just my WAGs...sorry for your fix!

Phil

 

[dennis 221]

Still trucking. Tried a fwc site in Jackson but they moved an No one knows where. O well

 

[dennis 221]

So if I jump on the lithium battery band wagon .are they just drop in replacement or do I need a whole new solar set up???

 

[ckent323]

Dennis221,

Depends on what you have already.
Do you have a newer truck with a smart aternator or an older truck with a dumb alternator?
How is the camper connecter to the truck (i.e. wire size and battery separator or other components). Is it fused?
Do you have a battery separator or a Blue Sea ACR or a DC-DC charger?
Do you have solar? What type, model and brand of solar controller?
Do you have a battery monitor?

 

[Sedro F. Woolley]

I have the same basic question as Dennis221, so I'll jump in with my answers to ckent323's questions:

Truck: 2009 Tacoma dbl cab, long bed 4wd with (presumably) stock alternator, purchased with camper in 2017.

Camper: 2011 4WD Finch, purchased with truck in 2017, originally sold in Canada (if that makes any difference).

Truck wiring: Appears to be AWG 10 from truck battery to female plug-in for camper in side of bed.Wire diameter with insulation is ca. 3/16".

Camper wiring: Pretty sure wires from 4-wire male plug to separator switch are AWG 10. Not sure about wires from separator switch to battery, thinking they're probably whatever was standard for Finch when 4WD built it. Will certainly check this before proceeding with work on system and replace with AWG 10 if needed.

Separator switch: SurePower 1314A (original from 4WD factory, I believe.)

Solar: Renogy 12V, 150W panel on roof, Bogart SC2030 charge controller. I installed in 2017.

Battery monitor: Bogart Trimetric TM2030. I installed in 2017.

Crown 80Ah AGM battery I installed in 2017 after original battery failed the first time we took the camper out now seems to be on its last legs. Through (initially) ignorance and (later) inattention, I managed to completely drain the new battery at least twice and drop it below 50% a time or two as well. Now, even after showing 100% charge on TM2030 monitor, when we run it down to 80% or so on the monitor using lights, "furnace", fan, etc., battery voltage is low (wish I'd thought to write it down when this has happened, but it occurs to me now I could possibly get some of this info from the monitor memory), lights start to flicker, and furnace won't work.

I know I should probably get a load test done on the AGM, but I'm pretty inclined to go ahead regardless and replace it with a BattleBorn 100Ah LiFePO4 battery for the additional usable capacity. It looks like I might have to finagle the existing battery compartment a bit to fit it in, like raise the cleats that support the wee plywood cover to provide more clearance for the battery terminal connections, but this seems doable. I have BattleBorn's instructions on setting the correct parameters for the battery on the TM2030 monitor and SC2030 solar charger. I also noticed in a previous post that I can get an IOTA IQ4 smart charger module to plug into my existing IOTA DLS30 120V/12V converter/charger that will automatically provide the correct charge rates for the LiFePO4 battery.

I think that just leaves the truck to camper charging system. I want to upgrade this eventually to get more charging from the truck (bigger wires, new alternator, new isolator switch, 12V/12V charger, etc.?) , but my sense from reading other posts is that with the built-in BMS on the new battery, I could safely install it without having to worry too much about damaging it with the existing on-board charging system. Am I more or less on-base with this approach?

 

[Vic Harder]

Sedro, yeah that should work. Going Li vs AGM doesn't change the fact that alternator charging using the factory system is ... pathetic. To improve it I would wait to see if you even need the truck charging system with your new BB. Your AGM "Should" still be working with only 2 major discharges (unless they froze while discharged?) but the evidence you mentioned seems to prove they are indeed dead.

If you do decide to make the alternator charging option work, you will need to:
- Install a DC-DC charger. Victron recommended (no affiliation!). Why? Because the voltage drop over 10g at 30A is enough to get the separator cycling on/off/on so frequently that actual charging is very low. When you install the DC-DC, the separator goes into the spare parts bin!
- Upgrade the wiring to at least 6g. This is because the voltage drop at 30A over 10g will make setting the "motor running" detection settings more complicated than they need to be. Alternately, you could run a separate charge detection wire or switch to force the DC-DC to stay on.
- No need for a new alternator or separator

 

[dennis 221]

well we arrived home an since my last post ran furnace frig plug in 4 things to ubs ports lights etc an all ran with out a problem! maybe ,lol , going over all those horrible roads but supper fun between Dubois an green river woke them up!!!

 

[Sedro F. Woolley]

Thanks, Vic!

Yes, I will see how things go with just the Li battery and the other adjustments/mods to the existing charging capabilities before I dive into the alternator/DC ti DC charger part. A question about upgrading to 6g or bigger wire: I haven't torn into them yet, but I'm guessing that the existing female plug in the pickup bed and the male plug on the camper won't take wire that big. And if I did need a separate "motor running" wire, that would mean another terminal in the plugs, correct? I have 4 wires now. Are there more robust plug systems with more terminals you can recommend?

 

[Vic Harder]

Thanks, Vic!

Yes, I will see how things go with just the Li battery and the other adjustments/mods to the existing charging capabilities before I dive into the alternator/DC ti DC charger part. A question about upgrading to 6g or bigger wire: I haven't torn into them yet, but I'm guessing that the existing female plug in the pickup bed and the male plug on the camper won't take wire that big. And if I did need a separate "motor running" wire, that would mean another terminal in the plugs, correct? I have 4 wires now. Are there more robust plug systems with more terminals you can recommend?

I and others here use "Anderson Power Pole" connectors. Passing through the truck bed requires drilling some holes, and lining those holes with grommets so that they don't abrade the wires. Yes, you would need another wire for the "motor running" wire.

 

[Sedro F. Woolley]

Got it, Vic. Thanks! Realized after clicking on the link to your electrical system thread that you have covered the Anderson Power Pole connectors and a lot more there. Great work!

 

[Sedro F. Woolley]

So, I was about ready to "push freaking print" today and buy the BB 100Ah battery, but I noticed that the bulk/absorption charge output for the IOTA DLS30 with the IQ LIFEPO module is 14.7V. The manual for the BB10012 battery, however, states that the maximum bulk/absorption input is 14.6V. I didn't know whether or not that difference is significant, so I called BattleBorn.

Ronny there said someone at IOTA had told him a while ago that they recommended using their IQ AGM module with an LiFePO4 battery instead of the IQ LIFEPO module. He recommended I contact IOTA directly to get their take on the question. I'm waiting to hear back from them on it. Interestingly, the bulk/absorption and float charge voltage specs for the IQ AGM module are the same as for the IQ LIFEPO, (14.7V and 13.6V) so obviously there's more to it than just charging voltage.

As usual, the devil seems to be in the details.

 

[Vic Harder]

Sedro, in the short term, I would not worry about the IOTA. Also, check in the sale price for the Renogy LiFePo4 batteries!

 

[Sedro F. Woolley]

Yikes! The Renogy deal looks like a no-brainer!

Thanks much, Vic!

 

[Sedro F. Woolley]

Hmm, maybe the Renogy 100Ah LiFePO4 battery ought to be a "brainer" after all. Helluva sale price at US$500 vs $800 for the Battle Born, but then there seem to be some details, such as a better warranty for BB (10 year vs 5 year and with less limitations), higher testing standards (BB claims 75%-80% of capacity after 3K to 5K charge cycles, vs. Renogy 80% at 2K), BB minimum charging temp of 25F vs. Renogy's 32F, more experience base with BB vs. Renogy (is the latter new on the market?), BB cylindrical cells vs. Renogy flat cells (appears to be a range of opinion out there as to whether or not this makes a difference in durability). The Bluetooth capability on the Renogy seems like a plus, though.

Anyone out there have a Renogy RBT100LFP12-BT 100Ah lithium battery?

 

[Sedro F. Woolley]

Ah well, I decided to quit dithering about it and ordered the Battle Born. Still waiting to hear back from IOTA as to whether one of their little plug-in modules will work with my DLS30 converter/charger to charge the battery. I understand that if I install the battery before I get that worked out, the 13.6V float charge from the DLS30 won't hurt anything as long as I don't leave the battery for a long period at 100% charge. And, if worse comes to worse, I'll replace the DLS30 with a PD145LV or other lithium-compatible converter/charger.

 

[Sedro F. Woolley]

Ah well, I decided to quit dithering about it and ordered the Battle Born. Still waiting to hear back from IOTA as to whether one of their little plug-in modules will work with my DLS30 converter/charger to charge the battery.

Heard back from IOTA tech support re the IQ4 LiFePO smart charger module for the DLS30 converter/charger:

"[SIZE=12pt]I would recommend using the IQ-LifePO with the DLS 30.
The battery manufacturer doesn't want the battery charged in the higher voltage range (14.2 - 14.6V) for long periods of time. Both modules have a high trigger at 14.6V which means the modules will begin the process to the next stage when the voltage hits this trigger.
For the IQ-LifePo that means the float stage (13.6V), the IQ-AGM will go into absorption (14.7V) for another 4hours.
The IQ-LifePo is a 2 stage module, while the IQ-AGM is a 3 stage module."[/SIZE]

I'll forward IOTA's email to BattleBorn, since their tech guy didn't seem to be up to date on using the module with their battery.

Looking forward to receiving and installing BattleBorn 100Ah LiFePO4 battery and IOTA IQ-LiFePO module this coming week. Heading out with the truck/camper the following week for a two-week road trip, itinerary TBD.

 

[Vic Harder]

good call on using the Li dongle given what IOTA tech support said.