Full build - Reconstructing a 1981 Grandby into a custom Hawk!

[Qcamper]

This is looking great! I am glad to see someone else is interested in beefing up the roof for snow load. I am definitely going to do the same when I get into my roof. How much weight do you think it added? My current roof suffers from snowload deformation that stretched all of the screw holes and created leak areas. I have even considered going with a more aggressive profile to the sheet aluminum in hopes of a more structurally stable top.
Can't wait to see how all of this turns out. I admire your work ethic. It makes the trips that much sweeter when you are camping and you can lay there knowing the extra work that you put in.

 

[PokyBro]

Qcamper, I think it only took about 17-18 feet of 1 inch square aluminum tubing, and about 30ish L-brackets, so probably only 3-5 pounds. Not anything you'd notice. With the insulation, and vinyl headliner out, I can pick the roof up myself, flip it over in the garage, and move it around vertically, no problem. Actually I moved the roof with everything still in it from the back yard to the front driveway, so really the roof is not that heavy anyhow, mostly just bulky.

The benefit of adding the cross bracing was very evident when I turned the roof right side up. It previously was drooping concave between each rib, for the whole length, but particularly at each end. Now between putting a little bow back it the roof struts, and the cross bracing, there is little to no sagging anywhere. It pushed it back out. With a new aluminum roof skin, it would probably not have been necessary for looks, but I am very happy I did this, because as you said, it's more peace of mind if I do end up in snow conditions.

I'm guessing the roofs produced today at FWC and ATC have much greater strength than these old roofs have, based on improved methods, and perhaps materials. So this was just one guys approach to making something work as best you can, with what you have to work with.


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[PokyBro]

Just catching up from this past weekends efforts. I find myself always thinking ahead to, "what needs to be done next", or "before I do this next faze, I need to do this or that".

Part of the fun of doing this project I suppose. But hey, how come I didn't get a build manual with this thing? Wait a minute, other posts on this forum have provided valuable insights and visuals of how I thought my camper should come together, so thanks to others for their contributions.

Here's some additional photos of the progress.

First up, some of the weld joints on the roof struts were not exactly tight fitting, even though they've held all this time. Adding an L-bracket gives me a little piece of mind.




Some of the holes where the rivets holding the top lift panel hinge were damaged and enlarged too much when the lift panels were removed. This was the second time they were removed, once by PO, once by me. I didn't get a picture of the worst ones, but my approach to addressing this was to rivet a strip of aluminum stock over them so I can start new. I didn't want to move the hinge position forward or backward from the original holes, because I was afraid this might cause alignment problems when the roof is dropped down. You can see a couple enlarged holes on the photo above, and the installed plate below.



I also got all the solid foam insulation cut and installed. I used a table saw to cut the individual pieces to size to fit as snugly as possible.








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[PokyBro]

I weighed the insulation batting I removed, which I kept just in case, at @3.5-3.7 lbs with a luggage scale. The 1 inch solid insulation panels weighed in at approximately 5lbs each, and it took a little less than two 4x8 sheets, so around 9.5 lbs. to replace the fiberglass batting. that means about six extra pounds roughly. One advantage of solid foam, according to one of the FWC videos, is that solid foam doesn't retain moisture, batting does.



I set the roof back on the camper body to make sure the wiring for the overhead lights is where I want it. Seeing it visually in place beats relying only on measurements, because I've been know to measure wrong.



So I'm getting close to reinstalling the new headliner. Again, thinking ahead what would I need to do, I realized the wood slats that hold the headliner up on the ceiling would be needed. I couldn't find any thin slats at the local building stores, let alone finding something the right color, so I made them myself. I did this by getting a 2"x3"x10' piece of poplar board, cut it first into 1 inch widths, then ripped three slats from each of the two halves on the table saw, ending up with six pieces. Only five are needed, but I sanded, stained and sprayed each with several coats of lacquer finish. They came out quite nice.

I'm getting fired up to install the headliner, another step closer to completion.



That's about it this past weekend. I did have an opportunity to meet up with Tim (Living the dream). We had a great time looking at each other's campers, discussing what we've been doing, and learn from each other. I love his exuberance, and as you would suppose, he's quite a nice fellow.

One thing I realized after looking at Tim's roof with the headliner removed, is that his roof struts are 1"X11/2" aluminum tubing, so inherently stronger. My camper was built several years earlier, and they began with 1"X1" tubing back then, but moved to the above soon after. Placing the cross members on mine will hopefully help for weight loads I encounter, but now I'm wishing I had a camper a few years newer. I'm sure it will be fine, but you know how it goes, "I want what he has.....".


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[PokyBro]

On my last post a week ago, I commented on learning that my camper model, being one of the earliest years of production, FWC originally used a 1" x 1" tubular roof frame, but has since gone to a 1" x 1 1/2" rectangular tubing to increase the strength.

While I had the roof setting on the camper shell, I was testing the wiring for the lights and fans inside, and actually placed both fantastic fans in place. Good thing I did, because, one of the light fixture had no continuity. More importantly though, somehow I noticed that the roof actually had sway and bounce to it. What I mean by that, is if I put additional pressure, standing out side, for example, for the additional things I might add like a solar panel, I could actually get an up and down, bouncy, springy movement from the roof. Perhaps restoring the convex bow to the roof may have contributed, but I thought, man, if I was driving on a dirt road, this thing would be bouncing up and down the whole time. Oh no!

Since I don't have a newer model roof to swap out, I was back to solving the problem at hand, if I could. Kind of a bad time to learn this now, right?

As much as I hated to, I did a re-mod to the roof. I didn't take any photos of the process, but here's the before and after shots.



I added five longitudinal inside struts, mounting them parallel to the existing struts, and connecting them with 2" screws every so often, to since them up tight. So basically, I doubled the strength of each strut. This was no easy task, as I left the roof skin intact, and had to remove the cross member EMT pipe, by sliding it out using vise grips and a hammer, as well as remove, resize, and reinstall all the short cross bracing pieces I had previously installed, remove the wiring, and drill additional holes for routing the wire adjacent to the previous channels. But......I "got r done!"

I also needed to match the arch I had previously done, since the new added tubing was straight. I did this, as before, by turning it bottom side up, placing a 2 x 4 at each end, and walking out each strut, starting in the middle, and walking to each apposing end. I think keeping a slight arch is still a good idea, just needed more strength to keep it bowed when installed.








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[PokyBro]

You will notice, that I returned to using the fiberglass batting as well. I did this for two reasons.

First, I was now a little concerned about the additional weight of the five 1" x 1" x 10' struts, which collectively came to about 12 lbs., and the additional 6 Ibs I added by going to solid foam from the batting mentioned earlier. 20 lbs is significant amount of weight to add to the roof, keeping in mind the addition of a solar panel at some point in the future.

For kicks, and because it would be good to know, I weighed the whole roof as you see it above, without light fixtures, headliner material, and fans, and it came out to be 66 lbs. In the photos that follow, the headliner material added about another 8-9 lbs, and another 7-8 lbs with fans, so it's getting up there, and though I would have preferred to stay with solid foam insulation, it would have required resizing every piece, an added 5-6 pounds over the weight of batting, and simply put, with redoing the wiring as well, the batting made more sense. I don't have a reference to go by with newer construction roofs, so I don't know how they compare weight wise, but the goal is to keep weight down, insulating properties high, and strength up.

So here's a string of photos bringing you up to date to where it is now. I took a lot so you can see the process of getting the headliner in.




After laying the liner upside down, I sprayed 3M contact cement along the edge of both halves, as they layed over the roof, removed them, and sprayed the center metal struts they would affix to.




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[PokyBro]

After laying both halves of the headliner over the roof, I overlapped the two halves in the center where they met. Once allowed to adher strongly enough, I began stretching and tightening one side at a time until there were no wrinkles.




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[PokyBro]

I installed an aluminum plate over the wiring harness coming down out of the roof, so it would stay in place and not stress the fabric over time.



I laid the slats I made last week over top to see how it would look, made sure the lights worked, and called it a day.


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[PokyBro]

Here's a shot of the the roof where I redid the bow in the roof with the added struts, (couldn't edit it in above).

Also, this is the 3M contact cement I used for attaching the new headliner. As a side note, the headliner is mildew resistant, marine grade perforated vinyl, that I got from an online upholstery supply business.

For anyone considering installing a new headliner, it's definitely easier with the roof off the camper, I don't see how it could be done very easily otherwise, at least in the manner it was originally installed, being tucked under the exterior aluminum sheeting, and with the sideliner installed.

I would also add that it's not real tough to do. You just have to pull the headliner tight in multiple directions, until you see all the wrinkles disappear. It needs to be tight enough to not sag with gravity, or with heat once in use.





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[PokyBro]

I'm in the process of preparing to make the sideliner, and have been giving it a great deal of forethought, and have been practicing using an industrial sewing machine I picked up, which I'll also use to sew cushion covers, and curtains, later on.

I'd love to see close up photos of how the windows are sewn in. If someone wouldn't mind taking the time to send me some close-up photos from your rig, I'd be most appreciative.

In particular, I'm interested in the bottom corners from the inside of the camper liner, where all the layers (screen, clear plastic, and privacy panels all come together.

(Unless someone in northern Colorado has one I can look at personally, which would be ideal.) I'm a very visual oriented person, and I also believe in a saying I once heard. "Whatever the mind can see and believe, it can achieve". So if I can see how something is made, I'm not afraid to try and replicate it.

Anyhow, I would also like to know the measurement/ dimensions of the sideliner window openings (height x width), the spacing measurement between front and back windows, and perhaps from rear of camper to the edge of rear window, and same for front. Also, how far down from the roof is the top of the window openings.

I know, there's a lot there to ask for help on. I have the original liner still, but I think they're made a bit different now, with improvements to keep leaking, seepage from rain to a minimum, if at all.

Thanks a bunch guys!


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[Living The Dream]

No stone unturned! looking good. Great to see it in person last week! Ill have to figure out how to do my headliner with my roof still on... And looking forward to see how your canvas turns out. Its looking like that will be in the fall for me.

 

[PokyBro]

Thanks Tim! I'll have more experience by the time you're ready to do yours, so we can certainly collaborate when the time comes.

A few more photos from today. This is starting to feel like payoff time, with each step accomplished, I'm getting closer to using it, and I'm stoked!

Cutting holes for the vents / fans.


Slats cut and installed.


Back on the camper to see how it looks. I'm a happy camper today, happier still once I'm really camping!



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[W6USA]

Hi Poky-
If you still need those detail shots of the windows, just PM me with your email address.

Scott

 

[BillM]

Poky,

Wow, what a build. Back in 97-98 I custom built a pop top camper for a 93 Nissan PU that my wife and I lived in for a year and then used for weekend/vacation trips for another 10 years before we got our new truck and a FWC. I honestly think your rebuild is more work than my custom job was. When you are done you really will have a brand new camper, it reminds me of the companies that take some classic vehicles and rebuild them to better than new. Great work and I'm sure you will enjoy the results for many years.

 

[Qcamper]

Looking great Poky,

I will upload some photos of my window and some measurements, but I don't know if they are the same as the newer ones. Mine was an 86 made for a Bronco, so it may not be the same for what you are looking for. The good news is that since you are making the sideliner you can do whatever size you want
I live west of the front range, but you are certainly welcome to come and look at my window in person if it helps. I will be re-doing my sideliner soon too. I plan on making mine taller to gain a bit of head room over the bed.

 

[Qcamper]

My windows are 2 at 44x 14 1/2 and 2 windows by the over cab bed 25x4
The large windows in mine are placed 18 inches in from the back corner and 4 inches down from the ceiliing.

These measurements take into account the sewn seams. So the actual opening is about 2 inches smaller than the dimensions above.
Sorry for the bad photos, I was in a hurry and remembered to do it for you. In the photo the clear plastic should be straight with the seam, but I closed it with one hand while taking the photo and it stuck to the velcro on an angle. Anyway, I hope you can see what you are looking for.
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[PokyBro]

BillM,
I appreciated your recent remarks. I am really trying to do things right on this build, so that this camper will last for many, many years. I have tent camped up until now, so this will be my pre-retirement treat. I will need to learn to carve out more time to use it properly once completed, because I haven't been getting out that much for several years. I was kind of tired of sleeping on the ground. However I tent camped last night, and it wasn't that bad. Boon docking it, and I had a wide open "camp ground" all to myself, just the way I like it. Perfectly quiet, serene, and beautiful, and no one else around, down in Southern Utah.

Qcamper,
Thanks for taking time to take some photos, and for your kind words.

W6USA also provided some great shots of a newer FWC as well, on a PM (thanks again Scott), and between the two, I think I'm good to go now. I have a pretty good feel for how I will go about making the liner. I'm continuing to work on a number of items, and Once I complete each phase, I'll post again. Taking some time off for family get togethers for a couple of weekends.



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[PokyBro]

Hi folks, I'm back at it again, and had a bit more to share as the build continues. I've been putting in quite a few hours for the past couple weeks, and have made some great progress. I'll post some of that now, and more later.

First off, the recent post on galvanic corrosion around lights really caught my attention, as I had planned to add marker lights, and a rear center marker,/ brake light. Originally I was going to have both positive and negative wires for each marker light exit the frame to the outside, but it got to be very difficult to feed wires through the inside of the aluminum square tubing of the frame. So then I thought I would just run the positive, and ground to the frame with the mounting screw going through the light, and the ground wire remaining on the exterrior. After reading the post on galvanic corrosion I was wishing I hadn't even messed with installing marker lights, however I already had holes through the siding. So..... I pressed on.

Here's a series of photos on the lighting install. The first photo shows how I was originally going to ground the negative wire. It wouldn't have been flush, and was really a bad idea anyhow.




I had to enlarge the holes for the mounting screws, but didn't have the right size drill bit, plus the drill bit I had kept catching, and spinning the whole light fixture around. So I came up with an alternative. I took one screw and ground some slots on each side with a cut off wheel, and then put the thread end in the drill, and ran the screw head down each hole, creating the exact width needed to seat the mounting screws.










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[PokyBro]

I ended up grounding the negative wire on the frame inside the camper, away from any moisture, so it shouldn't be a problem now. The lights had nothing but a flat surface on the bottom, so I used butyl tape to seal them and provide a flush finish. I'm glad I added them now the worry is over, they look pretty nice.



I also worked on preparing the paneling around the bed area once the front lights wiring was completed, and prior to installing the the lift panels.



I used some flexible plastic sheeting I had, sprayed contact cement on it, and added carpeting material for the radius corner.






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[PokyBro]

I also got my fantastic fans installed on the roof, and cut, routered, and finished the push boards, and installed them



Next up will be the process of building the lift panels, which are complete, and additional progress, probably by next weekend.


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