Health scare and trip planning

Latest from USFS -

Overnight Camping Prohibited on the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest in Alpine County California
Spark, NV., April 24, 2020 – At the request of Alpine County in California, all Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest lands within the boundaries of the county will be temporarily close to overnight camping starting on Saturday, April 25.
“We recognize that this overnight camping restriction comes at a time when many are seeking respite in natural areas,” said Forest Supervisor Bill Dunkelberger. “However, this temporary closure is to support state, county, and local authorities in controlling COVID-19 pandemic.”
With limited public health services, Alpine County is extremely concerned with the potential of exposing local communities and law enforcement staff to COVID-19 with the increase number of people from outside the county recreating on NFS lands. The county is seeing more and more large groups of people camping in the area as the weather warms and the snow melts.
“We appreciate the public’s cooperation in helping us keeping our vulnerable rural counties and communities safe,” said Dunkelberger.
California is still under a mandatory, statewide stay-at-home order to protect the health and well-being of all Californians and to establish consistency across the state in order to slow the spread of COVID-19. (https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/03/19/governor-gavin-newsom-issues-stay-at-home-order/)


link here -
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/htnf/news-events/?cid=FSEPRD729219
 
For those of you that are following my posts on this thread regarding friends that are "locked down" in Morocco in a rented camper van due to the virus, here is an update. Earlier this week they learned that they will not be able to travel anywhere until at least May 22. If that is the case, they will have been in the country for almost three months. They feel that the Moroccan government is doing a good job of dealing with the virus and they were visited and interviewed by a medical team last week to be sure that they were comfortable and doing well. That same team distributed masks and later, another government team brought about 30 lbs. of food per person to the people stuck in the campground. I will provide more follow up as it becomes available. Stay safe!
 
Except for the inconvenience brought on by this pandemic, it is great to hear how well Morocco is dealing with the situation, and looking out for foreign visitors. Thanks for the update!
 
Missing Link said:
In town they have access to a grocery store, pharmacy, clinic, and (believe it or not) a liquor store.
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Not so bad! Except for the uncertainty.
Glad they are being treated very fairly as foreigners.
 
klahanie said:
Latest here in BC, prov parks to open for day use May 14, camping June 1. Neighbouring AB similar, Sask similar with the added twist of camping for Sask residents only (not a bad idea for the start). Yukon border is closed. Further across the country it varies, generally opening up but NL did just recently close it's border to outsiders.

I'm not intending to travel near term but I'd say plans could be made now in the GWN.

In BC concerts will wait until a vaccine is in place. And bars are not part of any reopening phase yet. Please take note of this when choosing a camping spot :ninja:.
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Thank you for the update, particularly about the bars!
What is the GWN?
 
^ exactly. Where us hosers live.

btw I should have written "within Canada". Getting in is another matter, a federal one and for the CAN/USA border ultimately a jointly shared one.

Domestically the message is, there will be a considered and measured approach to reopening, with BC not giving a lot of firm dates. Here in BC it's been mostly about physical distancing, recommendations and requests, with the public responding in kind. I expect a continuation but in the reverse direction. RVers should be able to accommodate this without too much difficulty, imo. How the greater public reacts tho, who knows.
 
I'm going to be bluntly honest here. I want to go camping. The Lady wants to go camping. I suspect most here are itching to get out there too. Many of us disperse camp and stay away from others. That would be okay right? And the Lady and I know how to do that. We are intimately acquainted with most backcountry areas within two days drive of us. We could disappear, and disappear easily.

I want to make a informed decision. We, to the best we can, want to do the right thing, be good citizens, and all that. I want to go into making the decision with my eyes wide open and based on facts. Unfortunately facts are hard to come by and especially muddied if it passes through social media.

We wanted to head over into rural Nevada. the middle of nowhere many like to call it. Pershing County to be exact. I searched Pershing County's website for how they are handling the Covid19 ordeal. Here is a bit of their most recent directive -


SECTION 7: Individual responsibility such as practicing good hygiene, maintaining appropriate social distancing, wearing masks in public, and avoiding non-essential travel remain the best tools to combat transmission of COVID-19. The easing of restrictions and resumption of regular work schedules and meetings must occur under these protective measures.
SECTION 8: This Directive is effective on May 4, 2020 and shall remain effective until modified, renewed, or rescinded by a subsequent Directive promulgated pursuant to the March 20, 2020 Declaration of Emergency.

So the residents of Pershing County are asked to avoid non-essential travel. Could I, in good conscience, put myself - a non resident - smack dab in the center of their county with non-essential travel? Something citizens there are asked not to do? I cannot.

I already know how the counties on the east side of the Sierra Nevada - Alpine, Mono, Inyo - feel about visitors coming in. They asked that trout fishing season be postponed to stop visitors. Fishing, their bread and butter. That's a major decision. We are not going to the eastern Sierra.

So how about close to home in my own County, inside the National Forest I live on the edge of? Hell, the roads are packed with vehicles heading up from the Valley now. Should we join them? Sure looks like everything's opening up. Of course, most of this is linked to social media posts and such.

What are the facts? Is the Forest open? Of course it is. Public land is public land. It is ours. USFS or BLM officials would and have thought long and hard about making a politically damaging decision such as closing public land. And on top of that, there is no reason to do it. The citizens of California are currently under a Stay at Home Order.

The closest thing I could find to a position statement from the Eldorado National Forest is this letter/press release


April 13, 2020

The staff of the Eldorado National Forest hopes that you and your family are safe and well. As we work through the unpredictable and rapidly changing COVID-19 situation, the health and safety of employees and the public continues to be our top priority at the USDA Forest Service

Outdoor recreation can be beneficial for your health but must be practiced safely. We recommend exercising close to your home and complying with local and state guidance for not traveling for your recreation needs. Stay safe and visit www.coronavirus.gov for additional information on avoiding COVID-19

Gov. Gavin Newsom published an executive order that directed California residents to heed the public health directives of the state Public Health Officer to shelter in place
"To protect public health, I as State Public Health Officer and Director of the California Department of Public Health order all individuals living in the State of California to stay home or at their place of residence except as needed to maintain continuity of operations of the federal critical infrastructure sectors, as outlined at https://www.cisa.gov/identifying-critical-infrastructure-during-covid-19."
[SIZE=7.5pt] Order of the State Public Health Officer[/SIZE]
[SIZE=7.5pt] March 19, 2020[/SIZE]

[SIZE=7.5pt]In addition, Amador and El Dorado Counties have published local guidance regarding COVID[/SIZE]-19 as it relates to travelling to and within the counties -

"The Health Officer reiterates that neither Amador residents nor nonresidents should be traveling from their usual places of residence for the duration of the orders by the Governor and Health Officer except as expressly permitted as a means to accomplish essential functions. Staying in short term lodging, defined as lodging for a period of less than 30 days, to facilitate recreation, tourism or "sheltering in place" away from your ordinary residence is NOT an essential function, places undue strain on infrastructure and services, and is NOT permitted under the orders by the Governor or Health Officer".
Order of the Amador County Public Health Officer
Rita H. Kerr, M.D
March 27, 2020

"The Health Officer reiterates that neither El Dorado County residents nor nonresidents should be traveling from their usual places of residence for the duration of the Governor’s Order except as expressly permitted as a means to accomplish essential functions. Staying in short term lodging, defined as lodging for a period of less than 30 days, to facilitate recreation, tourism or “sheltering in place” away from your ordinary residence is NOT an essential function, places undue strain on infrastructure and services, and is NOT permitted under the Governor’s Order of the Health Officer’s Directive."

Order of the El Dorado County Public Health Officer
Nancy Williams
March 24, 2020

We appreciate your patience and understanding as we all work together to minimize the impacts and spread of the COVID-19. Continuing our service to you during this time is very important. Please contact your permit administrator if you have any questions about this information. We value your partnership in stewarding public lands and advocating their sustainable use.

Sincerely,

Elizabeth A. Berger
ELIZABETH BERGER
Acting Forest Supervisor

So what is clearest to me in the above letter is the Public Health Officers of both counties (Amador and El Dorado) are in agreement that traveling for recreation is NOT permitted, both for residents and nonresidents.

So, to me the facts become pretty darn simple. If I'm stopped and asked what I'm doing - and a camper is pretty obvious isn't it? - the directives above are what I'm suppose to be following.

So what is responsible? What decision aligns with my sense of good citizenship? In no way am I telling you what you should do. I can only speak for myself.
 
Ski,
I will not quote your excellent, thoughtful post. I will say I agree with you. Just because the seasons have become more attractive does not mean the threat has diminished to us and the many people we will inadvertently cross paths with. As much as we both want to be out and about, we will instead stay home and remain as isolated as possible for the time being.
Tony
 
Do what your conscience says is ok. It is incumbent on each one of us to answer this question:
Am I a subject or am I a citizen?

If you answer that you are a citizen, then read the owner's manual looking for answers. The top owner's manual is the US Constitution. Where does it state that you may be deprived of liberty without due process by a jury of your peers.

Executive orders are not laws. Ask for the specific governing law that says that executive orders have the force of law. Even under King George before the revolution, citizens had freedom of movement within their state and between states. When was that freedom repealed? Tyrants are always trying to increase their power and control.

That said, I am minimizing my exposure to the virus by choice. I believe that following social distancing guidelines will reduce the lliklihood that I may contract COVID-19 but guidelines are not law. Our immune systems require constant exercise to remain in top shape and too much cleaning and removal of exposure to the environment will reduce the strength of our immune response to other environmental vectors.

Paul
 
Thank you for your thoughtful post ski, I've been following this thread with hopes of hearing calm, rational perspectives on when it may be prudent to venture out again to the backcountry. Your consideration for the wishes and well being of the people in the communities in which you wish to travel is commendable and a perspective that's good to hear.

Your criteria of "what decisions align with my sense of good citizenship" go beyond just your rights as an individual citizen but address the responsibility of being a citizen who is part of a larger community during a time of uncertainty.

Kelly
 
It is considered fairly routine to close areas to public access for public safety during or immediately following natural disasters, such as wildfires, earth quakes, floods, etc. The coronavirus pandemic is a natural disaster and one threatening the entire country/world. I wonder why some choose to treat it so differently since our individual choices do stand to significantly impact others.
 
Well said Ski. We’re staying home, wearing a mask and practicing strong social distancing during short infrequent trips to the store, in consideration of others. We’re hopeful others will do the same for us. Not going camping? A mere inconvenience.
 
Batman said:
It is considered fairly routine to close areas to public access for public safety during or immediately following natural disasters, such as wildfires, earth quakes, floods, etc. The coronavirus pandemic is a natural disaster and one threatening the entire country/world. I wonder why some choose to treat it so differently since our individual choices do stand to significantly impact others.
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I suspect it’s because we have a lot of “privileged” people who don’t give a rip about anyone else. They just can’t be inconvenienced.
 
Got that right! Let me add my name to above reasoning. Yes everyone has rights, but if your insisting on taking yours could lead to my death , then no! Wear a mask, avoid crowds, stay home and wait a while, the woods will still be there, hopefully, when this is over :cool: !
Smoke
 
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